Fusion 3 Progress Thread

Welcome to our brand new Clickteam Community Hub! We hope you will enjoy using the new features, which we will be further expanding in the coming months.

A few features including Passport are unavailable initially whilst we monitor stability of the new platform, we hope to bring these online very soon. Small issues will crop up following the import from our old system, including some message formatting, translation accuracy and other things.

Thank you for your patience whilst we've worked on this and we look forward to more exciting community developments soon!

Clickteam.
  • [MENTION=16253]blurymind[/MENTION] thanks for your comments. To pick up on one of your points (which others have said too) which is essentially "release something ASAP, fix/build it up later" - I'd ask you to consider this:

    The majority of our users (customers) are single purchase customers, solely buying the base package (I include those who purchased in a bundle or sale at massively reduced price in this category). Most do not buy the more expensive Developer version and the majority do not buy an exporter or add-on. Of those who buy exporters, most buy just one. From my investigations, it appears we actually have significantly more pirate users than users who buy anything other than standard Fusion (and most pirates download illegal cracked versions with exporters included).

    So, our current userbase (with of course exceptions) does not equate to a captive market who actively make secondary purchases or buy upgrades. This means that whilst Fusion 3 will hopefully have an initial success amongst our most faithful users, this will likely just be an initial bubble and not support the strong and sustained sales we need to cover the high development costs of Fusion 3.

    To be blunt, we are a small company and we don't have tonnes of money for advertising (it is very expensive to make any great headway with ads). We have had some success with guerilla campaigns but our strongest opportunity for success with F3 is for our product and company to get picked up by magazines, tech shows, blogs, YouTubers, Twitchers and so on. If we were to release a version of F3 with only the basic or even a middling feature set - well basically you only get one chance to male a good impression! Releasing with a rich feature set and supporting materials and extensions, we stand an excellent opportunity of the aforementioned media channels giving us rave reviews and exposing F3 to their wide audiences/userbases. Fusion 3 really is an amazing concept and more powerful and ingenious than all of our competitors' products, but stripped back to a "just about working" state just for the sake of getting it out there will not let it shine and grab the attention of decision makers in the media. Considering the scenario further, there's a real risk that a half-baked release of F3 could even gain us very negative reviews and permanently damage its reputation/make potential customers look to our competitors' products.

    So, as I hope I've managed to illustrate, it is super important for Clickteam and for F3 that we take the extra time to polish it, that we don't push it out there too early and that we don't blow our opportunity to gain positive media attention and to push Clickteam to the next level. Along with this need to hold back on the release comes the need to keep our cards close to our chest. If we give too many details out we seriously risk competitors copying our ideas. They might then release quick turnaround versions of our techniques and concepts, probably far less cool and useful than our own, but nonetheless they will have gotten there first and this would chip away at F3's edge and that all important first impression and wow factor.

    A lot of users are calling for updates and news and information. Some of you even get really quite angry and unpleasant about it at times (there's a reason we started a fresh new thread and have very firm rules for it). The truth is that we've been here before. Due to increasing pressure to comment and communicate, we released a fair bit of information (in the forum thread, in live streams and via the F3 blog). I answered a lot of questions myself, often doing so despite having been told not to by colleagues. In my and colleagues' opinion here at Clickteam we released too much information, far too early. In my experience here, as soon as we release any information, it immediately becomes insufficient in volume and leads to demands by users for more and more and more. When you consider this scenario alongside our need to keep our cards held close, I hope it is clear the difficult situation it leaves us with.

    So whilst I would agree we can and should do better with communication, I would ask each user who comes here to complain or tell us how we're doing it wrong (and I'm not singling any one user out by saying this) to consider everything I've said here, to consider the difficult position we're in but perhaps most importantly, to consider the effect of posting very negative statements or comments (especially as we then get yelled at for moderating or removing them, even though they may breach the clearly marked thread rules).

    We will get there and when we can safely release more, we will do so. We're very aware that marketing F3 via positive media exposure isn't going to just be about a quick week of frenzied mailing media outlets etc. it will require building relationships, product teasers, previews, demo games and on and on, in a period leading up to the release. Is that period going to start immediately - no. In the next few months, quite possibly not - but please remember that we ARE working hard to get a polished product to both give you all the groundbreaking experience you have waited for all this time, but also to give F3 and Clickteam the best chance at going forward.

    I know we keep saying it, but Fusion 2.5 really is a very capable and mature product and is still under active development all the time. We still have some tricks up our sleeve regarding F2.5 and you can look forward to some new paid-for enhancements in the coming months (more about that in the new year).

    You can all really help CT by recommending it to other people, to friends, colleagues, to your school/university - anywhere you see a chance, evangelise for us! The more we sell, the more developer time we can fund to get F3 to a point of completion. Don't hold off on new projects and please don't advise people to wait and not buy F2.5. Do you know someone using our software as a pirate? Are you a pirate? Buying a copy/encouraging them to buy would really help us out a lot. It might seem like a strange thing to ask but if you're going to buy, a purchase from our own stores at Please login to see this link. rather than other places like Steam means that we get 100% of the sale price (where Steam would take over ⅓ of the total). If you're publishing a game/app - please follow the licence agreement for MMF2/Fusion 2.5 Standard and include a "made with Fusion" splash screen (we don't currently enforce this, but it would really help us get the word out there).

    So to summarise: yes, we have hit another Christmas/end of year without Fusion 3 being released. Yes we do realise this is frustrating for many of you (we feel it too!) but we are working our socks off to bring you a F3 which lives up to the hype and will take the product line and company forward to the next level.

    I'd like to take the opportunity to wish everyone a happy Christmas and a prosperous 2019 to come. Ho ho ho!


  • I know we keep saying it, but Fusion 2.5 really is a very capable and mature product and is still under active development all the time. We still have some tricks up our sleeve regarding F2.5 and you can look forward to some new paid-for enhancements in the coming months (more about that in the new year).

    Zune HD Exporter Confirmed

    HYPE

    Seriously though I'm really curious to what this plugins gonna be.

    Professional Game Developer

  • To me the biggest problem with 2.5 is bad code reusability. You have to make copies of event sheet logic, you can't instantiate it easily . In that aspect its not sufficiently capable for me for doing anything at scale. That said thank you for sharing your side of the current situation. I agree that you announced it too early. I stopped expecting the release after last year. For those who pirate 2.5, please buy the damned license. Give yourself a present. Having a legit copy gives you official support and you help the developers get 3 released

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  • I agree. I've used Fusion 2.5 Developer, and it's really good for what it's worth. I really enjoyed using it over the years. Though development can be tedious than necessary at times, especially since it's difficult to carry similar code over to new frames. Not to mention global code doesn't let you use features you can with code built inside frames, or something. I can't remember the exact reason off top of my head. Though I'm sure Fusion 3 will be well worth it as well. :

  • Exciting to hear there could be some new stuff on the way for 2.5, I'll still support CT! I do wonder when the bug tracker is coming back? Has CT made a comment on this? It's not that I have any bugs to report.. it's just not a good look for potential new users to come to the forum and see posts saying things like "the bug tracker has been down for 6 months, CT has abandoned Fusion 2.5!!" and CT not even responding to it.

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  • OK can we get back to the original thread topic only now please, we've not deleted things despite it going against the rules but I'd like for the conversation to go back to F3 now, within the rules of course. Thanks :)

    Hey Simon, for what I understood, it seems that Fusion 3 will be able to import files created with fusion 2.5, would be possible to know, even partially, which extensions will surely be supported?

  • As we've said before, we don't actually know which extensions will be available at launch. The best thing I can suggest is to just work on your F2.5 projects as 2.5 projects and don't plan for them to come into F3, rather develop them as F2.5 projects, because we can't give the advanced information (for reasons I explained above) required for users to be able to plan a F2.5->F3 development process.

    Edited once, last by Simon (December 28, 2018 at 4:21 AM).

  • I think I have a question that hasn't been asked yet

    Will the file size of exported games still be as small as in Fusion 2.5?
    That's one of the things I really like about Fusion.
    In other engines the default size (without any assets) is already over 15mb.

  • [MENTION=14770]Banduck[/MENTION] our empty file size in 2.5 is a point of pride for us and the developers, we will do everything we can to maintain that.

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  • To be blunt, we are a small company and we don't have tonnes of money for advertising (it is very expensive to make any great headway with ads). We have had some success with guerilla campaigns but our strongest opportunity for success with F3 is for our product and company to get picked up by magazines, tech shows, blogs, YouTubers, Twitchers and so on. If we were to release a version of F3 with only the basic or even a middling feature set - well basically you only get one chance to male a good impression! Releasing with a rich feature set and supporting materials and extensions, we stand an excellent opportunity of the aforementioned media channels giving us rave reviews and exposing F3 to their wide audiences/userbases. Fusion 3 really is an amazing concept and more powerful and ingenious than all of our competitors' products, but stripped back to a "just about working" state just for the sake of getting it out there will not let it shine and grab the attention of decision makers in the media. Considering the scenario further, there's a real risk that a half-baked release of F3 could even gain us very negative reviews and permanently damage its reputation/make potential customers look to our competitors' products.

    A lot of users are calling for updates and news and information. Some of you even get really quite angry and unpleasant about it at times (there's a reason we started a fresh new thread and have very firm rules for it). The truth is that we've been here before. Due to increasing pressure to comment and communicate, we released a fair bit of information (in the forum thread, in live streams and via the F3 blog). I answered a lot of questions myself, often doing so despite having been told not to by colleagues. In my and colleagues' opinion here at Clickteam we released too much information, far too early. In my experience here, as soon as we release any information, it immediately becomes insufficient in volume and leads to demands by users for more and more and more. When you consider this scenario alongside our need to keep our cards held close, I hope it is clear the difficult situation it leaves us with.

    Simon, thanks for shedding a little bit of light onto the thought process of comms regarding F3. I am happy to hear that the lack of updates isn't an oversight on Clickteam's part but rather it's part of a larger marketing strategy. That fact alone gives me much more comfort than I had before.

    As part of the minority that has purchased the developer edition and every exporter you make, I too feel the frustration when there's less communication. But we are the vocal minority. The general public is better off with no information prior to an amazing and polished F3 being dropped on them like a ton of bricks.

    I've been using Clickteam products for over 20 years so I already know that what you put out will be quality, but most of the world does not have that brand loyalty. Youtubers, Twitch streamers and those that you're relying on to market the product do indeed need to be left in the dark, not given enough information to form an opinion so that there is no negative opinion in advance. Those of us clamoring for updates do so because we have passion for the product based on past experiences. But anyone lacking in past experiences also lacks that passion. You get one chance to make a first impression so previews of a half-complete product will indeed cause harm.

    Happy New Year to both Clickteam staff and everyone on this forum. I'm eagerly looking forward to updates whenever they are appropriate.

  • I think it was mentioned earlier that users will be able to create new extensions by using the event sheets in f3.
    If that is the case, it wont be long before the community recreates any extensions they are missing from f2.5 :)

    If the event sheets become so portable, that would be particularly sweet for everyone at the clickstore imo

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  • Spot on [MENTION=16253]blurymind[/MENTION] - ACE driven extensions, including the ability to build on existing extensions and repackage as a new extension, is in the spec for F3.

    Rapid extension development (which builds to C++ for Windows EXEs, for example) is going to make F3 soar! So exciting :D

  • Spot on [MENTION=16253]blurymind[/MENTION] - ACE driven extensions, including the ability to build on existing extensions and repackage as a new extension, is in the spec for F3.

    Rapid extension development (which builds to C++ for Windows EXEs, for example) is going to make F3 soar! So exciting :D

    I'm really looking forward to that. Have you decided on a default license for new extensions (Apache, MIT, Unlicense, etc) and a way to allow people to know which license the extension was released under?

    .:::.Joshtek.:::.

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  • That would be up to the authors of each extension to decide I would imagine.

    I expect that Clickteam will need to choose one or more FLOSS-style licenses for any initial/sample extensions to allow Clickers to build on them in line with the 'rapid extension development' concept. Furthermore, advocating for one or more 'preferred' license has the advantage of making it more likely that someone would be able to combine two extensions to create an even better third extension. Figuring out this issue in advance can help avoid unnecessary fragmentation and support open source extension development.

    Edit: As someone who does Python development for open source projects, one of the things which unnecessarily slows down my work is having to recreate things that are already open source because the original code was released under an incompatible license or because the author did not even specify a license. In other cases I end up choosing an inferior option because it has better license compatibility. That doesn't meant that one license will work for everything, especially if people are incorporating code from outside of the Clickosphere which is already under a different license, but I think it is worth considering given the emphasis within the Fusion 3 ethos of being able to build on existing extensions.

    .:::.Joshtek.:::.

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    Edited 3 times, last by Joshtek (January 6, 2019 at 2:19 AM).

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