Google Stadia and Clickteam Fusion

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Clickteam.

    What's everyone's thoughts on Google Stadia (or other incoming cloud streaming platforms)? I think there is some potential here, especially for Fusion-made games. Clickteam-based projects tend to have very low requirements for play, so that should make streaming a lot easier and lessen input lag quite a bit. Of course it also depends on if you need to export to a custom format or if their servers will just be running Windows/HTML5 games, both of which are very much in Fusion's wheelhouse.

    But anyway, thoughts? Anyone thinking of getting on board?

    That's kind of my thinking too. My project is REALLY user generated content based, though, and I've promised a high level of modularity, so I'm a bit worried going exclusive is going to seem like I'm doubling back on some of those promises. However, since a lot of that comes down to custom levels (level editor already working), and art (ie lots of loading frames from external file), I'm not sure how much of a sacrifice I'd really be making, since we're already hosting content on mod.io, and just need to get the API implemented. Once that happens I kinda bet the sky's the limit.

    I'm a bit skeptical of Stadia - I imagine for turn based games or anything which doesn't require immediate/fast reactions it will be perfect, but for any action games which I'd anticipate there being a bit of input lag

    The Please login to see this link. shows approximately 160ms between pressing a button and an action happening - of course this is going to be extremely dependent on your internet connection, its latency and your distance to the data centre. But for people like me who live in Australia even with good internet I imagine it will be painful trying to play any game that's going to need responsive input from the player.

    Even on a local network, I found trying to play games on Steam using the Steam Link + Steam Controller annoying, and that was with only 30-50ms or so of input lag. Works perfectly though for Civ and Mini Metro

    edit: just realised in the video I linked they're using a regular wired controller and not the Stadia controller - but Please login to see this link. shows some testing done with actual numbers

    Quote from marbenx

    I'm a bit skeptical of Stadia - I imagine for turn based games or anything which doesn't require immediate/fast reactions it will be perfect, but for any action games which I'd anticipate there being a bit of input lag

    The Please login to see this link. shows approximately 160ms between pressing a button and an action happening - of course this is going to be extremely dependent on your internet connection, its latency and your distance to the data centre. But for people like me who live in Australia even with good internet I imagine it will be painful trying to play any game that's going to need responsive input from the player.

    Even on a local network, I found trying to play games on Steam using the Steam Link + Steam Controller annoying, and that was with only 30-50ms or so of input lag. Works perfectly though for Civ and Mini Metro

    edit: just realised in the video I linked they're using a regular wired controller and not the Stadia controller - but Please login to see this link. shows some testing done with actual numbers


    Considering the fact that it’s 2 times as powerful as the other consoles and can run on 8k TVs it should be faster and at 120 frames per second I think servers it offers should make it either faster than other competitors or as just as fast depending on how many servers google stadia has around the world and the factor of whom lives the closest to the servers.

    [quote='FalconsoftIndustries','Please login to see this link. the fact that it’s 2 times as powerful as the other consoles and can run on 8k TVs it should be faster and at 120 frames per second I think servers it offers should make it either faster than other competitors or as just as fast depending on how many servers google stadia has around the world and the factor of whom lives the closest to the servers.

    Any kind of game-streaming sounds somewhat unappealing to me. I used to have an original Nvidia Shield, which was a handheld gaming device that could stream from your own PC over your home network. It worked pretty well, and I did really enjoy kicking back on the couch playing games rather than sitting at my desk chair. But the lag was very much noticeable, as were the visual compression artifacts that were necessary to minimise bandwidth. It usually wasn't enough to ruin the experience, but it was enough to make certain games a lot more difficult to be good at. It also hurt immersion.

    I'm assuming that the lag I experienced on my home WiFi network (PC was plugged in with cat6 cable to the router...only the Shield was using wifi) was on the low end of anything I would experience by using a cloud streaming service, so I've never been interested in this sort of thing. But then again my opinion counts for little. I also can't see the appeal of watch other people play games on youtube or Twitch, but clearly the appeal is there for millions of people.

    Please login to see this link.
    My Fusion Tools: Please login to see this link. | Please login to see this link. | Please login to see this link.

    Yeah I've tried testing the original Mondrian via Steam streaming to my phone and it's... well, let's just say Windows in general is weird when it comes to right click controls on a touchscreen. It's going to be fascinating to try and get the new one to be a bit more cooperative with that.

    If you want to kill modding and user created content then by all means use Stadia. Meanwhile I'm going to be here owning my hardware and modding the hell out of my games.
    It is not worth it in my eyes. Modding allows longevity, remove that and a lot of PC games would become throwaway (which is exactly why the bigger publishers are pushing for streaming because their games are throw away).

    Its just another platform. I'd probably still make games for the service but they would be downscaled compared to what you'd be able to do with an non-DRM non-Streaming version of the game.

    Professional Game Developer

    I don't think Stadia is going to kill modding and user generated content. Heck, I'm making a game that is highly focused on both, and I'm very interested in what the possibilities are with regards to implementing content like that via a streaming service. As long as you build the tools into your game to support it, and have a backend infrastructure that allows for compatibility, such as a user folder on Stadia's end that can store content (which there will likely be to store screenshots and video of games in the first place, so why not custom files?) then there is very little stopping a developer from supporting streamed modding, and in fact that would be a gigantic innovation that would likely get its praises sung for generations.

    Will it be 100% the same? No. But just because it's more gated doesn't mean that A. your game has to be EXCLUSIVE to Stadia, and B. that your game has to lose ALL customization just because it's on a more closed platform. Look at Super Mario Maker. Think outside the box and you can make a lot happen.

    If I wanted a Ninja Turtle added to Mario Maker could I do that? Nope. So sorry its not the same. Romhacking is still done and for a lot of people is still the preferred way of making custom content. This will always be the case. Even though you can make your own stuff in Minecraft people still mod it. Semi-Open File Structure is powerful, closed cloud computing solutions isn't. Its just another platform, don't pick a side and do not put all your eggs in one basket like some other developers are doing.

    Professional Game Developer

    I was a part of the Project Stream testing Google did with Assassin's Creed Odyssey and for me it worked flawlessly. My internet is about 60mbps but supposedly you only need 25mbps for a smooth experience. There was obviously some loss of video quality due to compression for the stream so it wouldn't look as good as running the game locally off your hard drive, but performance-wise it worked with smooth framerate and I didn't notice any input lag.

    As for Clickteam, I think the bigger question is how open Stadia as a development platform will be. If it will be as open for development as the Google Play store then of course no problems. If it's going to be console level gate keeping it might be more problematic to simply have an exporter option for Fusion.

    [MENTION=5614]Shawn[/MENTION] Yeah there's still a lot up in the air. I'm glad to hear it was stable at your 60mbps connection. 25mbps should theoretically be great for most Fusion games, especially with the under-the-hood performance and optimization improvements in 2.5+. But since we don't even an official Linux exporter it's tough to say. I'd love to see shaders translated to OpenGL or Vulkan to help improve cross-platform compatibility, but I know, wishlist wishlist wishlist.

    I think Stadia is a horrible idea and I won't be supporting it. Given Google's track record of withholding features unless you follow along with their silly account shenanigans combined with the emphasis on digital only turned me off immediately. The input lag and visual errors were just the final nail in the coffin.

    I won't ever understand the obsession with getting rid of physical games. I don't want to lose my entire library because something happens on their end or they decide that I crossed some sort of line so they lock my library away. Digital/streaming only also puts you at the mercy of your ISP (internet could go out at any time, notorious for throttling etc) even if you just want to play an offline single player game.

    Best person at writing incomprehensible posts. Edits are a regularity.

    My focus is on creating games that can be brought to any platform that has an audience, from Windows to Switch or even Atari VCS if there's demand. Digital-only does put ownership in the hands of the platforms instead of the actual owners, which really makes it more like "rental until our service is offline or we ban you." Both options suck and we're likely to see litigation in the near future over this. In the meantime, what digital does offer is accessibility. With digital, you don't have to worry about importing a game that may be region-locked, or installing on a computer that doesn't have the right kind of optical drive (or is missing one entirely). Most indie developers cannot afford to distribute physical versions of their games anyway, so for us here, it's a moot point. Sure there are services that offer this now, but only if your game was a hit digitally first.

    When it comes to streaming, it's kind of a matter of convenience. It is a much more difficult prospect in developing nations, even moreso than regular digital sales, but videogames have traditionally been the driving force behind new technologies worldwide for decades now, and this is no different. Whether it's 3D graphics, HD media, or now high speed internet, we have games to thank. Stadia is just another way these games can hit new markets, potentially even in developing nations IF those nations have put a decent amount of effort into their infrastructure (which is a lot to ask from some nations, even the US, which is still stuck on dialup in Please login to see this link.).

    In the end, it's up to developers to decide what platforms they will support and, more importantly, why. This can include being easy to develop for, being able to hit target demographics better, wanting to get a jump on new technology, offering up something new in the design space, or even just "because it's cool." It is then up to consumers to choose whether or not they will support the games on those platforms. Look at the Epic Store, for instance. Epic knows one way to compete with Steam is to nab exclusives, which is a traditionally console move, but this being PC, feels a little weird. With Stadia, it will not surprise me if Google nabs exclusives as well to entice customers AND developers to their platform, so ultimately it's up to the consumer to determine if they support such moves. Until then, I have bills to pay, and if someone wants to pay me or generally offer tech and business support to bring my games to their platform, who am I to say no?

    yeah but remember that if you let them set that precedent you might take away the other options. If you take away the other options you are then at the MERCY of Google which means they can tell you to do what ever they want and you have to do it.

    To me that's not worth it. That's selling your very soul to the devil. I would never do such a thing. Better to Rule in Hell than the Serve in Heaven.

    Professional Game Developer

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