Fusion graphics editor is nice, but...

I'm fairly competent at drawing pixel art, and I've always enjoyed using the editor because of its simplicity. That said, the editor is such a dinosaur. I was using long forgotten editors, some with better features, back in the Amiga days. And I made own graphic editors with some better features on Amstrad cpc 464. I don't enjoy knocking Clickteam, I love their software, but the graphic editor has barely changed since the Games Factory.

Just two extra features would do me:

Tile editor - so you can easily make seamless tiles.
Layering - so you can make some changes to graphics without destroying or having to make multiple copies of the original.

But why stop there?

Preset palettes - atmospheric palette selection for themed levels like forest, desert, snow.
Palette generator - so you can grab palettes from inspirational images.

I'm only asking very basic features here, but there's is just so much room for improvement.

@Please login to see this link.: I will try to make it clearer:

1) Some people in this thread are saying that the CF2.5 image editor is fitting their needs, for the sort of creator they are, and the sort of game they want to make.
2) You are saying that Clickteam Fusion is the best programming interface on the market, for the sort of creator you are, and the sort of game you want to make.

Ok, I see. Thanks.

The difference, as I see it, is that Fusion's programming interface is one of the best on the market (assuming you don't like syntax and you're making a 2d game). Photoshop is the best graphics software on the market for my needs. Gimp is not quite as good, but for someone who wants free, maybe gimp the best software on the market. For someone else, maybe Pro Motion NG is the best one.

But I don't believe that the Fusion image editor is the best option on the market for anyone. For some people, it's perfectly adequate. Those people should continue using it. Absolutely.

But as soon as you start saying "I wish it had feature X or feature Y" I think you owe it to yourself to explore better options, because those better options are already out there.

I still think Clickteam should make fixes and small improvements to the image editor where possible. But I don't think expecting huge feature overhauls from them is reasonable. Fusion's programming interface is excellent, but it took them 20 years to get here. 20 years! 2 months ago we still didn't have proper global events or a debugger output window. If you want a seriously good image editor from them that's on the same level as their programming interface, you're going to have to wait another 20 years. It's just not feasible.

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Quote from Caesar

Just two extra features would do me:

Tile editor - so you can easily make seamless tiles.
Layering - so you can make some changes to graphics without destroying or having to make multiple copies of the original.

Preset palettes - atmospheric palette selection for themed levels like forest, desert, snow.
Palette generator - so you can grab palettes from inspirational images.

Hey Caesar, I can't help you with the the tile editor but I get around the other three using the display previous/next frame slider.
for layering add the layer to be ammended on the previous frame and add a palette image(blocks, scene or character) on the the frame after, by moving the slider backwards and forwards you can paint over the image and pick colours from the palette image.

That said - skeletal or heirachical animation is a huge need but I imagine that's a separate editor

Honestly everyone in this thread are long time Clickteam users and very wise when it comes to its inner workings. We may not all be coders but is there a way that those that want to have a few extra features in the the graphics editor can add them ourselves using the Windows Extension SDK?

If so I think it would be a fair compromise since Clickteam is so small, we can add the features we want ourselves if given the tool to do so!

Didn't they mention some time ago that people will be able to somehow use Fusion 3 to actually build more features into Fusion 3 itself? That sounds like it might achieve what you're asking for, [MENTION=19026]GhostDataForger[/MENTION], which I think would be very exciting. Hopefully that's a real possibility and not just some nonsense that my lousy memory made up.

The built-in editor is fine for what it is - there's no point in trying to reinvent the wheel, when there are so many great third party image editors out there (including free ones).

The fundamental problem is that Fusion keeps all your project resources internal, embedded into a single .mfa file, whereas it would be much better if a project (at least during development) consisted of a folder containing all your resources - a file that contains all the event code (in a human-readable format!), spritesheet image files for each Active object (plus a text file to define the position, size, duration etc of each frame), audio files, etc.

That way, you can edit the resource files using whatever tool you like (eg. Photoshop for animations), and the changes will appear instantly in Fusion - there's be no need to manually re-import them into the .mfa file. If you choose to edit the resources using the built-in image and animation editors, they will still function the same way - all the changes are behind the scenes (they're simply editing the external resource files, instead of editing the .mfa file).

Yes, we can already do something similar using the Active object's "load frame" function, pixel shader image parameters, etc - but it requires a lot of extra coding, which can get fairly complicated if you have lots of animations - it should just be the way Fusion is built.

It sounds like Fusion 3 will expose all the files so you can edit them externally which will be handy.

I quite like the Fusion 2.5 image / animation editor. Could it be better? Yes. Should it be improved? Yes. It does its job and does some things really well, I would be at a loss if it were not there and it is part of the fun just creating an active or background object and start drawing.

I don't know if you remember the first MMF 1.0 image editor. It was quite an overhaul from CnC/TGF's editor - some good and some not so. It was more Windows-like which was good, and had some good new tools, but seemed more like a side step than a step forward. Over the years it has been improved with each iteration (even getting some of my suggestions added, eg: holding space to drag and scroll around the zoomed in image) and I would certainly welcome more improvements in 2.5 if we can get them, so I'd say to keep the suggestions coming. If Clickteam can do them then we all benefit, if they cannot, try not to be too angry as they have limited resources to work on these things and it will all be about prioritisation with many other user requests

Quote from AndyH

It sounds like Fusion 3 will expose all the files so you can edit them externally which will be handy.

I'm hopeful about that too, but I hope it's just more than a shortcut that opens the file in your desired program. That would be pretty pointless for some workflows (eg. mine). If you're using a vector-based animation software that exports PNG sequences, for example, then trying to open one of those PNGs in the animation software would be useless. I really hope we get something like the process that MuddyMole describes. That would be simply beautiful.

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(even getting some of my suggestions added, eg: holding space to drag and scroll around the zoomed in image)

Then thankyous are in order. That's essential functionality in any image editor, in my book!

Quote from Volnaiskra

Didn't they mention some time ago that people will be able to somehow use Fusion 3 to actually build more features into Fusion 3 itself? That sounds like it might achieve what you're asking for, @Please login to see this link. , which I think would be very exciting. Hopefully that's a real possibility and not just some nonsense that my lousy memory made up.

Yes it was mentionned that it will be possile to extend features with plugins programmed like any app/game with event system. They may have changed their mind though.

Quote from MuddyMole

The fundamental problem is that Fusion keeps all your project resources internal, embedded into a single .mfa file, whereas it would be much better if a project (at least during development) consisted of a folder containing all your resources - a file that contains all the event code (in a human-readable format!), spritesheet image files for each Active object (plus a text file to define the position, size, duration etc of each frame), audio files, etc.

Quote from AndyH

It sounds like Fusion 3 will expose all the files so you can edit them externally which will be handy.

From dev blog 5 Decemer 2016, it was at least planned like this:

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One of the things we wanted to fix with Fusion 3 is how your games and applications are saved on disk while you’re working on them. Fusion 2.5 uses a “MFA” file, which is a binary file format and only readable by Fusion 2.5 itself. This makes it difficult to use things like version control to track changes to your project, or to manage assets and events in the filesystem.In Fusion 3, we have moved to a completely JSON based approach. This means that you can look at the “source code” of your game or application in any text editor, check it into version control like GitHub, or even write your own tools to work with Fusion 3 projects. Additionally, all of the assets such as images and sounds in your game are saved into a folder along with your project JSON files, which allows you to quickly access your assets and edit them using your own tools.