Learning Maths and Formulas

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    I've been learning the program for about a year now and have made some good progress, but I'm not at the stage where I want to try some more advanced movements and such, but lack the knowledge of numbers and formulas to use them effectively - I'd like to create things like snakes and tentacles, multi-part objects which maintain their assigned positions to one another when rotating, faux 3D etc, but don't know where to begin?

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    For example, if this was a man viewed from the top down made from multiple Actives, it'd be pretty easy to create a walk animation for him swaying from side to side, but how could you code it so the parts maintain their positions and shift the correct number of pixels and angles as he rotates?

    I'm not looking simply for a maths resource, but rather something which is more directly related to game code, can anyone recommend to me some good sites or tutorials?

    Thanks

    I think this is exactly the sort of thing you're looking for: Please login to see this link.
    Also highly useful: Please login to see this link.

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    Quote from Volnaiskra

    I think this is exactly the sort of thing you're looking for: Please login to see this link.

    I should have mentioned: that's not just some random thing I found that I figured might be appropriate. I purchased and used it myself long ago, and I found it incredibly useful. It's got lots of good examples, including snake/tentacle stuff. Very highly recommended.

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    Ok so I gave it a good studying, it's a fascinating guide but it glosses over certain things a little too quickly, ie in the Trigonometry section it gives you a step by step to create a simple tentacle (which I admittedly found a bit tricky but got it in the end), then presents you a few other examples I'd love to try, but doesn't go into nearly enough depth to understand how they're made?

    Even more frustrating is the 3D section, which again gives some incredible looking examples, but almost no suggestion as to how to approach making them yourself?

    Well, good trigonometry guides are all over the place; just google it. I remember I watched a couple of good ones on YouTube a few years ago, wanting to brush up after having long forgotten the trigonometry I'd learned at school.

    Once you have a better sense of how trigonometry works, the examples in the 'how I learned to stop worrying...' mfa may make more sense.

    Though keep in mind that sometimes it's enough to know that something works, not necessarily why it works. Some of the uses of trigonometry that are used in gamedev don't actually have much to do with the primary purpose of trigonometry. Trigonometry is predominantly concerned with calculating the angles and sides of triangles. This is very handy for figuring out directions and distances in a 360° space for example. But almost as a side effect it also happens to make pretty curves when trigonometric functions like sin and cos are manipulated over time. Knowing about the triangle stuff won't particularly deepen your ability to utilise or enjoy the curves, for example.

    Try marv's castles of Britain site for a bunch of example mfas. Some of them are bound to have good examples of trig and tentacles and such.

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    Thanks for the tips, I was thinking along similar lines, that learning how to use the expression editor and maths may simply be a case of trial and error, looking at other people's examples and just trying to figure it all out through experience and experimentation.

    I've gone through the 'how I learned to stop worrying' guide and am currently reading the other link you posted (which I missed before). In the former, there's a bit toward the end which talks about creating fake-3D with maths, which I found to be enthralling as it's such a fascinating concept


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    But sadly, this section only briefly glosses over how to achieve these effects. It looks like it combines the earlier lessons of sin/cos movements with some distance and rotation but doesn't really go into much detail about HOW to combine them, and that's what I'm looking for.

    I've never been particularly good at maths and left school a LONG time ago, but as difficult as this learning process is I'm determined to pursue it just because the end results are so interesting, I just need to find a suitable guide to help me get there.

    That fake 3d stuff is impressive, but it's probably reinventing the wheel to some degree. If you're serious about getting 3D in your game then why not use an engine that's actually intended for 3D, like Unity or Unreal, or a 3d plugin for Fusion like Firefly or P3D? If you're not a maths wiz, why bust your chops simulating 3D from scratch when there are solutions out there that do it for you automatically and with more sophisticated features?

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    Always thought fake 3d stuff was cool. Being more of a graphics guy i love a good fake. Also love just working out how to do stuff in Fusion for sense of achievement and the fun of it.
    Id guess there are many people pushing Fusion to do things that could be done in other engines also. Amazing the knowledge we pick up over the years also.
    I am not great at math but have learned some from fusion and there are a few on Discord that regularly share math knowledge. Check it out if your not on there.
    Keep pushing Fusion op and happy game dev to ya.

    Quote from Volnaiskra

    That fake 3d stuff is impressive, but it's probably reinventing the wheel to some degree. If you're serious about getting 3D in your game then why not use an engine that's actually intended for 3D, like Unity or Unreal, or a 3d plugin for Fusion like Firefly or P3D? If you're not a maths wiz, why bust your chops simulating 3D from scratch when there are solutions out there that do it for you automatically and with more sophisticated features?

    What you say about using a proper 3D engine makes sense, and it is something I've considered and may well go with one day, but for now, simply as the motivation is there, I just feel so intrigued by the idea of really learning what Fusion can do? Admittedly I'm still very much a beginner, with just over 1000 hours practice logged so far, but it keeps me motivated to push on having new ideas to pursue and the means to gradually learn how to do so, and as fake 3D is so visually fascinating and just plain FUN to see in motion, why not? After all, anything which increases the enjoyment a player gets from a game can only be a good thing?

    Quote from c4t

    Always thought fake 3d stuff was cool. Being more of a graphics guy i love a good fake. Also love just working out how to do stuff in Fusion for sense of achievement and the fun of it.
    Id guess there are many people pushing Fusion to do things that could be done in other engines also. Amazing the knowledge we pick up over the years also.
    I am not great at math but have learned some from fusion and there are a few on Discord that regularly share math knowledge. Check it out if your not on there.
    Keep pushing Fusion op and happy game dev to ya.

    I feel very much the same way, I think there's just something about being able to see the imagination and creativity put into creating something which really adds to the enjoyment of it? This is perhaps why early SNES Mode 7 games, and even older arcade classics like Space Harrier, Afterburner and Thunderblade have aged so well graphically, because you can SEE the brilliance of whoever designed them in how the tech is utilised.

    Can you recommend any particularly good Discord channels for Fusion?

    Hey, if you enjoy the process and the learning experience, that's more than enough reason to go for it. Have fun!

    Though keep in mind that the benefit of doing what you call 'fake 3D' is for you, not for your players. I'd argue that there's little sense in calling it 'fake 3D' since it's basically doing the same thing as every other 'real 3D' engine: using maths (probably quite similar maths, I presume) to create the illusion of 3D space on a 2D screen. The main difference is that if you use Fusion to do it, you're using a less appropriate tool to achieve the same thing, where you need to build more of the nuts and bolts stuff yourself. So it's unlikely it'll look and feel as good, but it'll probably be a more satisfying challenge for you...if you can pull it off.

    But I'd probably put this kind of 'from-scratch 3D' in the 'you need to master the rules before you're ready to break them' category. It's the sort of thing that advanced users who are maths wizzes can get a kick out of, doing something complicated and unorthodox just to prove that they can. But you keep saying that you're a beginner and not great at maths, so it seems kind of weird place to start. But as long as stays interesting, go for it.

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    once you know how to PLOT a point on the screen using SIN/COS, the 3d math is just the same; each [point] has an Offset from a central spot/position. so when its rotated for example, it just moves the point relative to that central spot; eg; its like the hotspot.

    get the hang of Plotting in 2d, moving stuff in circles etc. the 3d here is just adding another height point to that flat 2d plane.

    Thanks for the tips guys, I've carried on practicing and am starting to *kinda* get how it works, though my attempt at a rotating cube looks more like an ash tray lol

    Now if I could just get the Quad extension to work, I'd eventually be able to make polygons (in theory)...

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