Vitalize future?

It's not cross platform and difficult to maintain, so I don't think it has any future. There are now the Java and SWF runtimes, that are cross platform, and there will be an HTML5 runtime in the future (a preview has been shown by Jamie last summer at the Clickteam Convention)

The video materials still are not available online.

IIRC it was a chatroom example using HTML5 WebSockets. (And a token Active Object bouncing around in the background to prove it has animation.)
That exporter is immature though, and there still isn't widespread support for the technologies that would make the average games perform well in HTML5. So you need to wait a little longer yet...

So we can understand that you and Jamie are working over it?

An HTML5 exporter is still a possibility, but other runtimes come first (iPhone, Android).

Is there any chance that we will ever see the long awaited edit box object in the mobile run times now that all these others are being introduced.

I ask this so pointedly as this post points out above that the Vitalize platform, most likely, has no future, yet I use this plug in currently on a web site with paying customers. It's the core of what the clients use to maintain the services they pay me for.

Quote from Yves

It's not cross platform and difficult to maintain, so I don't think it has any future.

I think you mean for you guys but as your customer, I have had some quarks with the development in Vitalize but have always been able to work them out. The worst experience I have ever had in MMF is Flash development. The process has been slower for me than any other development I have done in MMF and I hate it. A project I could have had finished in 2 weeks has taken me 5 and I am still not near finished, it was much easier just telling clients I don't do flash development and giving them a long, long list of valid reasons why starting with the sandbox it keeps you in.

I have used MMF for over 15 years and have been very happy over all with what Click Team has done with the software. It has come a long way and I have made very good money with the program but I have never had to worry about one of the core products within the program dropped. Having said that I have to say I am a bit concerned that now that there are new APIs available, the ones I have supported in MMF all these years may end up screwing me now.

I always had hope that we would see an an edit box added in the run times it was missing in. Now I can see that will most likely never happen. Never in the entire time I have used MMF have I ever seen Click Team just drop the ball on something but I feel that in the case of the mobile run times, the app developers were just left in the cold and will now stay there until new run times can provide what they need. Personally, after spending the last 5 weeks developing a SWF application, not game, in flash via MMF I have come to the conclusion that my companies will never use anything other than the standard scripted code we have always used in the past. As a code writer I can do that, but for people who don't know VBScript, .Net, PHP, Java Script, or even HTML, they have a long road ahead of them. HTML5 will give me a ton more control and functionality and I am already doing things on the web without HTML5 that people will tell you can't be done.

What will happen to the flash run time I have paid for if HTML5 takes over as some experts expect. Will the objects currently in production for Flash then stop because everyone is to busy to focus on what they started?

Even though Vitalize never gained the market share it deserved on the web it works great for use in a closed environment, I can do more with it than I can with Flash, or can ever expect to with flash based on it's restrictions.

While Flash is a great, and I mean great, format for what it was designed for, it does not hold a candle to what MMF can do with the Vitalize plug in. MMF is a much better, more powerful, and an easier to use development environment. I have patents on technologies that I developed in MMF that could never have been developed in Flash, never! For that reason my company evaluated, years ago, if we were going to be a Flash shop or and MMF shop. We chose MMF, so disappointing to hear that the future for vitalize is bleak. I can assure you that when the next run time comes out I will not be as apt to jump out there as soon as I see it and pay for it like I did with the Flash run time. Who knows, in short time it may no longer be valid and it may never even get all the objects it needs to do what I want it to do. That is now a possibility I have never had to consider with Click Team but I am now faced with. Will the mobile run times become obsolete when the HTML5 exporter comes out? There will be no need for them at that point as, in a very short time frame, there will be a larger number of mobile phones that will be compatible with HTML5 than phones that are compatible with Flash, or Java. Mobile device sales have exceeded PC sales and that is not going to stop.

I thought I would share what a current customer was thinking. Sometimes, it's these types of insights from customers that help me and my teams make the right decision for the direction of the company.

K

I have to agree with Kimera. I really was planning on relying on the Java runtime a while back, and pretty much have given up on porting most of my applications to Java for buggy reasons that are usually extension based. Internet Java applets easily crash, can't utilize the edit box object, and the only true way I can get a Java application to work correctly, is by porting it to a Java Web Start, which for the end-user is not something I really want to do.

I understand that everything is a work in progress, but as flash arrived, Java got thrown into the background. And now that I pretty much have to rely on vitalize because Flash is still a work in progress, vitalizes future is bleak.

I love MMF, and I will continue to support Clickteam. However, serious organization has to be done for multiple platform exporting. I know it is hard juggling 5 projects at a time, but something has to be done to ensure each platform is executed equally. I'd rather deal with 1 pristine platform, that use 4 others with limited functionality.

I would point out there is a Flash Input object that works as an editbox object, but it hasn't got all the features of an editbox.

Quote from SortaCore

but it hasn't got all the features of an editbox

Sort Core, thanks so much for the input, i have looked at the Flash Input just a bit. Your statement kind of supports what I am talking about though.

Kimera I agree with you. Vitalize is one of the best mobile formats.

Which only works under windows and requires the user to install a plug in.

So
For general public its a flop
For specific applications of use some people seem to find it useful

Other companies are promoting their formats/plugins instead of popular ones and are going positive with it.

Ok, just to put some prespective on this, I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here. But let me state now, I am NOT against Vitalise.

Ok... I am the local tech guy in my area. Everyone in my neighbourhood gets free tech support and that has spanned out around Waterford where I've got some paid tech support work too, but not enough... Anyway, suffice to say, a lot of folks have my number and call when their computer throws something at them they don't know about.

And this includes plugins. Every so often I get a call from one of them saying they turned on their computer and got a message saying Flash wasnted to install an update, what should they do? Or they were online and Adobe Acrobate Reader wanted to install an update, what should they do? Or their antivirus software is saying it's going to expire, what should they do??? You get the point. These are all everyday stuff to computer users so when someone calls with concern about these, it's easy to smile because it's such a trivial thing...

Now, Vitalise... No one has ever called me and said they went to a website and their web browser said it wanted to install Vitalize, what should they do? BUT... That doesn't mean it doesn't happen...

Joe Blogs visits your website and is happily browsing around when he sees you advertsing a game, that you can play online in your browser, you don't have to download it and install it. Cool!!!

He clicks the link and suddenly his browser throws a message at him saying your website wants to install a plugin called Vitalise. Joe Blogs is worried, he calls his tech support guy.

Joe tells his TSG about the message he has just got.

Joe:
"What should I do?"

TSG:
"Vitalise? I've never heard of it. What type of website are you at?"

Joe:
"It's a website by a game developer. He has some games available to play which you can download and install on your computer to play them but he says on his site that this game plays online in your browser."

TSG:
"Joe, you have to careful about installing stuff on your computer from an unknown source. It could be a virus or giving someone access to your system and all the information on it."

Joe:
"Oh, I don't like that."

TSG:
"It's up to you, Joe. If you know this guy and trust him, go ahead, it should be ok."

Joe:
"What if I email him and ask him about it?"

TSG:
"He could tell you it's fine but secretly hoping you'll install some virus or back door access to your system. I've never heard of Vitalise. If it was Flash or Java I'd say go ahead, but Vitalise, I don't know what that is."

Joe:
"What would you do?"

TSG:
"Unless I knew what I was installing, I wouldn't do it."

Joe:
"Oh, ok then. Thanks."

Call ends, Joe goes to another website, he now has a concern that your website could be out to do him harm.

Next day, Joe meet's Alice at the shops. they get talking.

Alice:
"So how is the new computer going for you, Joe?"

Joe:
"Great. But I had a close call there the other day. Nearly got conned by a virus writer to install something nasty onto my computer."

Alice:
"Oh dear!!"

Joe:
"Yeah, let me tell you about it..."

Now, you've probably read this and thought, no way, this is far fetched. But for new comers to computing, it's not. I have people call me because they are worried about Flash, Adobe, they are worried when their antivirus software tells them it needs to be renewed! So when they are presented with a plugin called Vitalise that their tech support guy doesn't know anything about and tells them to be careful... In the end you cold end up driving a person away from your site, and have that person tell others to steer clear.

Now as I said, I'm not against Vitalise. When it first came out, I actually posted a thread to these forums tells folks to get it out there, to make Vitalise Websites like the way there are Flash websites. But the problem is, it hasn't taken off. Now, if there was no Flash, no Java, for MMF, if all we had was Vitalise, I'd be all for keeping it. But we have these new and more recognised exporters available now. To go back to Joe again...

Joe:
"I'm trying to play a game on some guys website, it says it plays in the browser, I don't need to download and install it, but when I click on the link for it, my broswer is asking me to install Flash. What's that?"

TSG:
"Flash, that's fine, don't worry about that. Go ahead and install it, it's a well known plugin, you'll have no worries there. Hope you enjoy the game."

And there's the difference. When I think of all the extra work Yves has to put in to keep Vitalise going, and I see that we have Flash and Java exporters available to us, and I consider the unknown nature of Vitalise when presented to a user, I would much rather scrap it and have Yves and Francois work on the new up to date stuff for us.

I'll say one more time, I'm NOT against Vitalise, but when you look at it from all sides, it gives you pause for consideration...

I think there were two things wrong with Vitalize installations:
1) They don't tell you "You must install Vitalize to display this part of the page"
2) They don't install automatically like Flash does. If a user doesn't have Flash, he doesn't have to leave the website to get it. He just hits "OK" and the browser installs a CAB file.
The thing that put me off is I found it too difficult to install Vitalize... I think the link was wrong or something. If Vitalize did the same thing as Flash with new installations, there might not be a problem.
I just tried going on a Vitalize page now (this PC hasn't got it) and I got told "To protect your security, IE has blocked the website from installing a plugin."
After confirming it was OK, I got a tiny thumbnail image (non-Vitalize) and it stayed that way for some time. After a refresh, it was back to IE 'protecting my security'.

SortaCore, Vitalize! IS automatically installed with Internet Explorer, you have nothing to do, just click the confirmation message displayed by IE...

Interesting... could be some security settings, ironically. I'll try at home later.