Harvest Festival: All Signs (my most ambitious project yet)

redpandagames · August 12, 2012 at 8:44 PM

I wanted to share the new project that I'm working on called Harvest Festival: All Signs. So far, I've made 11 Flash games with Multimedia Fusion, but I will be making a single-player game with social competition (and maybe a few gifts) and will hopefully finish by January 2013.

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The game is language free, so anybody can play it. It will also be a free game, so I'm trying to figure out how to make money on it besides ads. I want it to be truly free, and I'm sort of against microtransactions. I prefer to be my own sponsor.

Anyway, I'm curious to know what people think, so I posted the project here:

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I've have solutions for the character customization, the user accounts, and gifts, scores, etc (using Mochi stuff), so I think I've got everything covered, but I'm curious to know what people think would make it awesome.

I didn't really think about posting it here at first, but a few people e-mailed me saying that they were interested just because I was a clickteam user! I love this place!

DizzyDoo · August 13, 2012 at 9:11 AM

I can definitely see why you are against microtransactions, in the social game genre they are usually done terribly. Whole game designs are architectured to exploit people for money, and they're usually devoid of any real gameplay.

I notice that your video doesn't show a prototype, so when I hear 'social game' and 'farming sim' I'm sure it's understandable why I immediately think of 'farmville'. But you mentioned Harvest Moon, and if you were to show a game that is like that, and also slightly multiplayer, gosh, I think lots of people would be interested. Farmville and Harvest Moon are two very different games.

It's hard to suggest how your project would be monetised without seeing exactly what kind of game it is. Ads are pretty okay, I would personally tend towards CPMStar which, for me, has been roughly 70 times better than Mochi, but maybe some kind of 'Premium' level account where users can pay a couple dollars and go ad free, maybe with some extra functionality like an extended friends list. Then again, for a social game, you wouldn't want to lock down the friends list...

It's a tricky one. I'm working on a Please login to see this link., it's Flash, built with MMF2 and multiplayer (real-time, in my case), and I've got plans to monetise it which are a mix of ads (for the free players), extra content/dungeons/expansions for ~$10, and microtransactions for non-game-effecting vanity items like cool looking costumes. I think that microtransactions that don't give players an advantage of others are fine, if a player wants to spend $1 on a panda costume, sure!

redpandagames · August 13, 2012 at 3:17 PM

DizzyDoo

Thanks for your interest. I'll start working on the prototype next month, but this month I'm swamped with a ton of stuff like my dating-sim.

I have tons of international traffic, which is a problem right now, but I think I have come up with a solution for monetizing that.

I really want the game to be truly free, so maybe I can just sell affiliate games on the side or something. I have never done microtransactions before, so it would be fun to experiment with them, but... I don't know. I wish there was another way. I'm afraid if I don't use them, there won't be a serious way to monetize the game.

I guess if people wanted to pay for convenience, it wouldn't be too bad to have a microtransaction here or there... Yep... torn!

If you're interested, I have a list of stuff that people pay for in social games. It may be useful to you.

Also, I checked out your project and shared it on twitter. Your game seems a little more ambitious than mine! My game is not going to be an MMO because it's just too much work and too many things can go wrong which takes the fun out of it for me. I'm also targeting a different market that would get confused and overwhelmed with something like anMMO. Basically in my game, you build the business as a single player and interact with NPCs, but you can view your farm's value (scored points) against other players using the Mochi Scores API in real-time at the end of each game day. I'm still trying to figure out how to filter those results to friends, but I'll think of something. I think I can use the social app to do that. You'll also be able to work with people to collect valuable items and you can't get all of them working by yourself. If you play the game on my site, you can chat in real time using a shout box, but I don't want to support in-game chat. At first, there won't be that much walking around, but I will upload new areas as I make them

Thanks again for checking it out!

Konidias · August 14, 2012 at 1:34 AM

Watched the video... You say your game isn't going to be about grind but everything else you mentioned in the video basically lends itself to a grinding style of play. Making/collecting items that you can craft into stuff that you can sell... how is this not a form of grinding? Then you go on to list basically the features of Harvest Moon games (farming/raising animals/cooking/mining/etc) which are your "special features"... so I'm just wondering what is going to be so different other than you can compare your scores with other people online?

I was with DizzyDoo when I thought it was going to be like an MMO.

redpandagames · August 15, 2012 at 5:15 PM

Quote from Konidias

Watched the video... You say your game isn't going to be about grind but everything else you mentioned in the video basically lends itself to a grinding style of play. Making/collecting items that you can craft into stuff that you can sell... how is this not a form of grinding? Then you go on to list basically the features of Harvest Moon games (farming/raising animals/cooking/mining/etc) which are your "special features"... so I'm just wondering what is going to be so different other than you can compare your scores with other people online?
I was with DizzyDoo when I thought it was going to be like an MMO.

Thanks for your interest. I'm glad that you asked that.

Grinding is sort of an ambiguous term, I guess.

I am talking specifically about "excessive grinding". I'm pretty sure that I said that in the video. In Harvest Moon, if you had one hundred crops, you would have to water 100 times. You won't have to do that in my game. You just push one button to water all of the crops and you get to watch your character do some cute sprite animations at random.

Also, the items will not be excessive, so there won't be an opportunity to grind too heavily. If you look hard enough I guess you could find grinding in any game. However, if at anytime people perceive something as grinding (especially excessive grinding), it will be taken out and redesigned. The idea is not too keep people busy through monotony.

There will be tons of stuff to do. You could even just go dancing every day to build your dance/social stats. You don't have to farm at all. There will be tons of ways to get what you want and become who you want.

Everyone will want to be something different. Maybe some people will want to be a beggar or a homeless person. Maybe some people will want to rule the game universe through money or relationships. Maybe some people will want to be merchants with the most collections. Maybe some people will want to be evil and cause problems...

It will be different because you get to choose your own language free story. You don't have to go around clicking on everything. Learning what's going on in the game by deciphering the game language system will be part of the journey.

Konidias · August 17, 2012 at 8:30 PM

Building up stats to me is pretty much grinding... I dunno... I guess you can say I'm skeptical. Harvest Moon's gameplay is literally the definition of grinding (plant and grow crops over and over until you get a ton of money), so to take a game like that and say that it won't be about grinding, is like taking a platformer and saying it won't be about jumping.

I'm always a bit apprehensive when I hear the word "tons" when describing content in a game. It sounds like your game is incredibly ambitious (do anything, become anyone) and not a project that you can complete by yourself in the 4-5 month time frame you've given. Just making all the items is a huge undertaking in itself... You're looking at at least 100 various resources (crops/fish/herbs/wild items/animal products) which you need descriptions/stats/prices and graphics for. You're looking at making farming, fishing, cooking, animal raising, and building a social system for communicating and befriending NPCs, etc... That's a "ton" of work you have ahead of you.

I'm interested because I actually have thought about making a Harvest Moon Online style game many times... It's been on the back burner in my brain for a while. It's just the huge undertaking and working out the mechanics of how everyone could own a farm and visit each other and all of that is a bit daunting.

I understand you said your game isn't really an MMO... but if you have any kind of scoring system, won't people want to grind whatever mechanics you implement in order to get the highest score? I'm interested in knowing how you plan to eliminate grind when you put a carrot on a stick and don't expect people to try to run and get it.

DizzyDoo · August 19, 2012 at 2:15 PM

Konidias makes some good points. There are games heavily focused around stats that are a joy to play, and others where it is just grinding. The differentiator there is how those stats improve, is there meaty gameplay behind it. Could the game stand without the stats? If it's just clicking a button and it says "Well done, you picked a crop!" or "Well done, you've increased your X attribute!" then I'm sceptical that people will play and even more so that people will link it to their friends. I'd rather a game have a little bit of content and be fun to play than to have a game give me hundreds of options, all of which are a bore.

redpandagames · August 19, 2012 at 7:34 PM

I see what you're thinking.

This is a language free game, so there will be no descriptions to come up with. Also, I'm not working on this by myself.

It's not really a Harvest Moon game. It's just that the theme, freedom, universe and building happiness are somewhat harvest moon like. The gameplay will be more of a princess maker game. Like I said before, grinding is kind of an ambiguous term. In Harvest Moon, it's easy to get burnt out from the monotony of watering plants and picking them, etc. That isn't going to be an issue in this game.

The initial prototype will be released in January, however, it will be more of a playable game than a prototype. A language-free online single-player game that tests your strategy against the world will be a work in progress for some time.

The initial game will be rather small, but based on player metrics, the world will expand to revolve around what people like to do.

Konidias · August 20, 2012 at 8:14 PM

Wait... aren't princess maker games literally nothing but grinding? Sorry if I'm being annoying, haha. :p

Oh so it's just the prototype? From your first post I read it as "the game will be finished by January 2013"

So I'm still trying to figure out what you're trying to do with this game... Is it like a time management game? I'm just not understanding how you can make a non-grinding game that involves competing against people for high scores. Every feature about the game that you mention just totally contradicts what you're trying to achieve.

- do chores that are typically repetitive and get boring
- (but it isn't grinding)
- like princess maker games (where you level up stats to achieve different results)
- (but it isn't grinding)
- compete for high scores (which usually involves repetitively doing something you probably will get sick of doing, just for the sake of an optimal score)
- (but it isn't grinding)

Then again, it's only grinding if you stop enjoying it. So I'm anxious to see if you can pull it off.

Also anxious to see how you pull off a Princess Maker game/Harvest Moon social aspects of talking with NPCs/getting them to like you without any sort of language being used. It seems like you're attempting the impossible. Like saying "I'm going to make a shooter game, but without any enemies, or guns". When you say "I'm going to make a princess maker type game with harvest moon chore/social elements, but without any stat grinding or language used" you can see my suspension of disbelief. :p

redpandagames · August 21, 2012 at 6:00 PM

Konidias

LOL! Thanks for following the topic. I could hear your response coming as I was typing all of that stuff.

Again, grinding is an ambiguous term and I was referring to excessive grinding. You certainly won't get carpal tunnel from playing my game, but there will of course be some repetition. It won't be monotonous though.

The initial game will be ready in January, but it won't be everything, rather the beginning and from there it will grow into what the community wants it to be.

It's certainly not going to be easy, but the whole point is that monotonous grinding made Harvest Moon a pain because you wanted to keep going, but you started to avoid planting crops because you didn't want to water any more of them after 100 or so.

My game will be more about management and strategy, and you will be able to hire people to help you, so I hope that explains where I'm going with it.

Konidias · August 22, 2012 at 5:53 PM

Actually I've found that in the latest Harvest Moon/Rune Factory games, after the first in-game year, I don't really have to water much because of the tool upgrades or a rainy day, or helper NPCs or whatever is in the game. One thing you want to watch out for is making it TOO easy. There's a bit of satisfaction coming from watering your plants a bit. If you can just click one button to water all plants, it's more of an annoyance than actually running around and watering maybe 8-10 times. At least when you're running around and watering stuff you feel like you are actively contributing to the plant's growth. If it's as easy as clicking a button, one would ask what the point of even clicking a button would be. Why not just have it all be automatic at that point?

I don't think I ever minded watering crops... especially with the ability to upgrade tools. I think the annoying part was just that I had to do it EVERY day and that eventually there wasn't any point to it because I had more money than I could spend. The rainy days definitely helped a lot because I felt so great on those days since I didn't have to water any crops and I could just run around and do other things for the day. Kind of like a vacation from work. :p

Well good luck! I noticed your indiego project didn't meet its goal, but I wouldn't worry about that too much. If the $500 was just to pay the artist, my advice is to just go ahead with the game and make it using placeholder artwork... it could literally just be blocks and circles to represent things. Then once the project is farther along, you can kickstart or indiego again with a video of the prototype being played. That would definitely get you the money you need for art. Right now people have to go on just your word that you will actually make a game later. Don't let the lack of artwork stop you from making the game.

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