Thoughts on taking a few months abroad, just for development and self-improvement.

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  • I am from Norway, one of the most expensive places on earth.
    When livable revenue from game development becomes a real possibility, i have been thinking, why not just move somewhere for a few months, where it's nice, warm, and cheap.

    I'll be done with my bachelor degree this fall, and i have serious thoughts about just moving somewhere around new-year or in spring, with a few goals in mind:

    - Working on my own games and projects as a serious effort, further boosting the sustainability of this project.
    - Learning a new language or becoming fluent in english.
    - Taking a systematic approach to improve my social skills, perhaps meeting up with Pick-up artists.

    There is really no limitation on where, staying for multiple months an expensive ticket is manageable, and all i really need is a cheap flat with decent internet access and hopefully a small kitchen and perhaps AC if it's in a tropical area.
    Travelling all by myself, some sure-fire social engagement and a relatively safe and urban place is essential.

    A list of places to consider:
    Australia - not the cheapest, but for some reason i feel australians are really friendly, and if i could become fluent speaking with australian accent, that would be awesome.
    South Korea - modern asia, not as expensive as Japan, and in my opinion have many of the most beautiful girls in the world.
    Philippines - cheap, warm, as a norwegian meeting people or girls would require zero effort, perhaps not improving myself as a person as much, but would be fun.
    South/Middle America - many places to choose from, i am seeing nice climate, cheap rent, and a great opportunity to learn spanish.
    Thailand - i could get a cheap apartment in bangkok as a working hub, and take little holidays to wherever. I would love it, but there is some stigma attached to it.
    South China - if there is any language i would really like to learn, it's mandarin, and i would really have to learn a lot if i am going there.
    Singapore - another great hub if i can afford it.
    Japan - expensive.. but hey, japan!
    cambodia/vietnam/indonesia - asian, tropical and exciting, and i can afford to live there, no matter how crappy games i make.
    east-block europe - something new, and it's cheap.
    USA, probably florida or california - never been in the US, a few months could be fun.
    Spain/France/Italy - i guess i would try to learn either spanish, french or italian.

    phew.. alright, hope someone bothers to read all this. So as a single aspiring indie-developer, mid-twenties, with a completely open-ended plan to live anywhere for a few months, any thoughts?
    If you could, where would you go?

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  • Australia is great place, probably won't live up to your expectations at first (everything is very spread out, you can't see the whole country in just a few weeks) but will definitely grow on you. Great environment to practise your english and very safe overall. Not cheap, especially if you're looking to live somewhere high-profile like Sydney Harbor. If you're willing to live in the outskirts you'll find it much more affordable.

    Seoul, South Korea is a favourite of mine, people are friendly, nice to foreigners and cost of living is much better than Japan. It might be hard to make new friends, but the cultural experience is well worth it. Even if it doesn't feel like home, you're only a short plane trip to Japan, China, Singapore or Vietnam. The drawback is you'll only get better at Korean, which is a very localised language and will rarely come in handy outside Korea.

    Vietnam is beautiful, but probably better as a holiday than a living destination. You'll find many of your modern conveniences not up to standard, and this might be frustrating. Health care, internet and feeling safe on your own streets may be sacrificed for the low cost of living there.

    Cambodia I recommend visiting before you make any sudden decision. It's a great tourist destination but probably for 3-5 days max. There's just not much to see and do. There's a lot of poverty and it can be very unsettling for a westerner so keep that in mind. Safety can often be a concern so adjusting may prove difficult.

    Japan is amazing to visit. People I've known who decided to live there, the novelty wore thin after a few years. When the reality sets in that you're paying a premium to live in an apartment the size of a shoe-box, it doesn't seem so appealing. If you're only looking for a year or so, it'll be a fascinating experience.

    USA is fun, but coming from a western country heavily-influenced by US pop-culture I felt like I hadn't left my own country.

    Can't comment on many of the others as i haven't been. Travelling is a great source of inspiration and very benificial for personal development. You'll be surprised by how much your perspective is shaped by your environment... and how this shifts when you take yourself out of that environment.

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    Edited 3 times, last by Ryan (July 29, 2013 at 7:45 AM).

  • Australia is one of the most expensive places in the world to live.. not very indie-friendly.. it's a great place (my favourite) but expensive. I've been to New York, Tokyo, London and Paris and they are all cheaper than living in Australia. Singapore is pretty cool.. but it is close to Australia in cost of living. If you really want to go somewhere cheap - Australians like to go to Bali, I'm actually going there on Wednesday X( It's super cheap, you can live comfortably on like 20 dollars a day. It's very humid/tropical though and probably not the greatest place to live.. lots of poverty and corruption. Japan is actually not so expensive these days, at least not from an Australians point of view.. the rent in Japan is on average 8-12 times cheaper than in Australia.. plus a meal out is about half the price of a meal out in Australia. Japan is also a great place for inspiration - I went there for 5 weeks a couple of years ago and when I got home I felt a whole new wave of creative energy.

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  • Ive been working in California (LA) for half a year as a 3d intern. Was pretty much the coolest time of my life, but i would not go back to LA. BUT California (and 90 percent of the people i met) were just awesome, fantastic and inspiring to this very day. I have been on a westcoast (us) trip a month ago and i fell in love with california again. I traveled from Portland (Oregon) to San Diego. Fantastic, inspiring, beautiful. I have never met as many strange and fascinating people as I did there.
    I will hopefully finish my travel blog (with tips and tricks about the places we have been there) this or next week - I can send you the link if you want!
    Just to sum it up: LA is crazy and too many strange things can happen there - of course they have venice beach, the griffith observatory, universal studios etc. - But you can go there as a "tourist" anytime you want if you live up north (santa barbara, santa cruz, monterey!!!, pissmo beach, etc. - i love thos places) or down south (san diego). It´s not that cheap to live there tough :( But it´s worth it! California will fill you up with energy and inspiration (i speak as a musician and game designer).

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  • I've lived in around half of those... Let's see:

    Japan - Nice place, crowded, but it has some really interesting feats of architecture and technology to show off. You'll definitely have a lot to do there. Also, beware of the cicadas, they're enormous in Japan...

    Panama - I lived there for 3 years, if you're looking for somewhere in Central America, I recommend it. In the city, it's not too different from anywhere else, tall skyscrapers and such, but it has some wonderful rain forests that you can go zip lining over! (Also, if you do choose it, look up the apartment building Villa Marina, it's really nice.)

    Italy - I thought that it had some really nice qualities, but after a while you can get tired of all the amazing artwork.

    Now, if I had a choice, I'd head to England. I'm in love with the country, but I haven't been there since I was two years old... I'm heading back today for a week, but you said Eastern Europe, not western... Hmm... I was only in Poland for a week, so I can't rate that. Don't go to Greece if you're staying there for a few months, it's nice, but only for a little while. Cool mythology though! My dad went to Spain, you'll have to get used to the lisp that they have in Spanish, but since I lived in mostly Central American countries, that's probably just me. It's a very beautiful place though, lots of nice things to go and do.

    Let's see, in the U.S., if you're looking for the best cultural experience of your life, head to Hawai'i. I was only there for six months, but it's fantastic, however expensive, since many things are imported. If you're looking for isolated, go to Wyoming, if you like crowded and no trees, go to California. My parents grew up there, they don't rate it very highly. I personally liked Arizona, it was dry, but nice. If you do choose Arizona, go to the Top of the Rock hotel in Tempe. It's built into the side of a mountain, and it has a very nice swimming pool.

    I don't recommend: Cambodia, Vietnam, or Indonesia. If you're heading in that area, go to Fiji instead. It's much nicer, in my opinion.

    Well, that's my short list for you, hope it helps! :)

    Logan Apple

    X Star

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  • Amazing replies, i was about to head to bed, but i'll try to make at least a short reply to each.

    Ryan: i wasn't really planning to go away for years, unless everything works out amazingly, so i don't think i could go tired of Japan. But as i said being able to find cheap living arrangements is important, i am happy to hear a recommendation for Seoul, i'll definitely look into that. If i can get an apartment there for a few months, i could rather go to japan as a week-long or so holiday.

    DaveC: is it really that expensive in Australia? i had that high on my list since i imagine it could serve all my purposes. I have actually been to Bali before, i was studying for 3 months and didn't really fit in that well with the other students, so the experience is mixed. I wouldn't mind going there again, but i might feel better going somewhere new. Korea and Japan are starting to feel like good options, although i would like somewhere a bit warmer.

    iamjot: hehe, i had a feeling the California area could be a good bet for my first USA experience, of course i will have a read on your blog, just pop me a pm :)

    XStar: wow, you are really well traveled, and you didn't just visit places either but actually lived there. Such as 3 years in panama? that's amazing. So you think it's actually easier to learn spanish there than in spain? i didn't include england on the list although it's a pretty obvious choice for practicing english and living in a friendly urban environment. I think my main concern is actually that my mom loves it, and would visit all the the time and call every day if i was there. Hawai'i is of course also a good USA option, since i want to go somewhere warm. Fiji is about exactly on the other side of the globe, i might have to plan even further in advance or get a sudden cash injection for that one.
    With all your living in different places, do you have some good practical advice for finding a place to live nice and cheaply?

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  • Sorry for not being able to respond. I've been in England without phone service, but I found wifi. My main recommendation is look at the exchange rate of currencies. Here it's 1 pound for 1.7 dollars. Try to lower that, so for example, find as place that's 1 whatever for 0.7 dollars. I know that you don't you use dollars there, but you get the idea. :)

    Hope I helped!

    Logan Apple

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  • I wouldn't ever make such a drastic move without visiting a place first. USA is so vast and varying its impossible to say where you'd be the happiest, from visiting California only a couple of times recently I've come to my own conclusion that it's not the dream place people, songs and media crack it up to be. I was once quite obsessed with visiting LA, for two or three years, yet in all the places Ive been to in the USA over the past 22 years (since I was 5), LA for me was the most dissapointing, dirty hole of a city. The beaches are totally overrated and pretty much equally as dirty and cold as your average British beach with the occasional tramp and palm trees.

    San Fransisco wasn't much better. Id easily choose New York City over both of them any day. Its also for the main part very easy to navigate on foot, and there always seems to be something happening.

    I also found the east coast people to be a tad friendlier/less hillberly/fake/weird. This could be a personal thing, or just that Ive visited the east coast more and I'm completely biased :)

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  • You will never develop or self improve by visiting a major city in the US. That is insanity. One of the best things you can do is rent a cottage by the ocean in a place like Bandon by the Sea. It's quiet, but still near facilities to buy what you need. Never heard of Bandon By The Sea, Bandon, OR? Good. That is exactly the kind of place you are looking for.

    Marv

    458 TGF to CTF 2.5+ Examples and games
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  • NOTE:
    Sadly moving to the USA is not just a matter of packing a bag and off you go. You need a green card and visa to live there and this means sponsorship for family already there or a job willing to take you on. I've looked into this as moving to America is something I have considered (Ireland is in a terrible state of affairs), but moving to the USA is not a straight forward process.

    Having said that, I agree with what others have said, you need to visit the USA before you just pack a bag and go. My recommendations would be Orlando Florida or Los Angeles. I found New York way too busy for my liking. Ohio was really nice but even more rural then Ireland is (not that I minded that). San Francisco was great and is close to Silicon Valley so if you're after and I.T. job and know your stuff, that could be a possibility. I totally LOVE America. Have a lot of truly amazing friends over there. It does miss some of the comforts of home (grub is different over there, culture, shopping, etc.), but if I had a chance I'd go. But remember, it's not just a matter of packing your bags and jumping on a plane...

    KnightTrek Productions
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  • From the original post my impression is that he wants to meet people, be in a hub and get some life experience. Recluding in a cottage by the sea may be ideal if he were looking to do the opposite of his original goal, and I'm pretty sure its something he could already do plenty of in Norway.

    Paul are you recommending Orlando because of the theme parks or because of the city itself?

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  • Also Paul, he's only looking at a couple of months (he's phrased it like he's moving there but it's more like a holiday)... I'm sure he could get a US tourist visa for a 2 month stay quite easily.

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  • hehe, hey, i just noticed this thread went on for a little bit.
    True, it's pretty much an extended holiday, with room for time to work on creating apps.
    To do something exciting at a safe low budget, i'll narrow it down to the south-east asia area. I am mainly looking at Chiang Mai and Cebu right now, from norway there are pretty affordable tickets to bangkok so i could just take it from there.

    Plan 1 - fly to bangkok, take a train up to chiang-mai, rent apartment, buy a lcd/led screen etc so i can actually work (i need my 23"), do a border run to laos and back to extend visa, then go back home after 2 months, or repeat border runs to extend. (or alternatively just apply for a longer visa)
    Plan 2 - fly to bangkok, mess around with hostels/cheap hotels for a week or two, then fly to manila and/or cebu and rent apartment+get pc stuff there.
    Plan 3 - fly to cebu "directly" (3 flights anyway), get visa in advance and stay there for a few months, if i am staying until april i could go to thailand on the way back and participate in the water festival.

    Chiang Mai has a moderate climate, it's cheaper than the main tourist destinations, and i found a couple of hobbies i should be able to do there (play squash and mtg), there are also lots of cooking classes i could sign up for.

    In the Philippines there is the great advantage of english language, it's definitely cheap there, and filipinos seem friendly and open, i could perhaps sign up for some volunteer work or whatnot as something else to do/socialize.

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  • I have been to Cebu. Great place and ultra friendly people. When we pulled in on the navy ship the families threw rocks up to the main deck which had invitation notes attached.

    Stay out of the provinces.

    Marv

    458 TGF to CTF 2.5+ Examples and games
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  • wow Nivram, was that a long time ago? why is it important to stay out of the provinces? and what exactly does that mean, everywhere on cebu except the main city? other islands?

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  • I have been to Cebu. Great place and ultra friendly people. When we pulled in on the navy ship the families threw rocks up to the main deck which had invitation notes attached.

    Stay out of the provinces.

    Marv

    I will admit, this made me laugh... As I read it, I read that when your ship docked, the families threw rocks... And I thought to myself, "Nivram, they don't sound very friendly to me!!" Then I read the rest of it... :)

    KnightTrek Productions
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  • SoftWareWolf.There are groups running around with machetes that like to cut off limbs. The main city is ok. Although I never got sick you have to crap and pee in a community external ditch in the outside provinces. You must clean it with a bucket of water. There are other things, but I won't say.

    Marv

    458 TGF to CTF 2.5+ Examples and games
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  • Alright... it took me a little time longer than expected - but now i finally found the time to write my report about the us westcoast. Maybe it is helpful for your decission (if not already made!). Have a great day! The spelling mistakes (and there will be a lot) should be ignored :)

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  • Iamjot, interesting read. I have been to San Francisco and Los Angeles. What you wrote about San Francisco is spot on, an amazing city and Alcatraz and the Golden Gate Bridge are just stunning. Really is a place you have to experience. As for the bad places there, only the Tenderlion area is what I avoided because all my tour books highlighted it as such. You are right about the high number of homeless people there but I was never bothered by them.

    You were also spot on about L.A. but you left me curious... You said you don't like it but you don't say why? So... Why?? ;)

    KnightTrek Productions
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