Note: The meaning and ramifications of the NDA

Just so that it is clear, I hope that all the Devs here are fully aware of the legal implications of the NDA and how it relates to your other projects and future.

If you have any intentions of doing a commercial project, or working for a company that could directly benefit from your association here, then it would be best for you to reconsider your membership. This is not a threat or warning, but simply a re-statement of fact that should be clear.

I would like to note that a "third-party" can be construed as a company or corporation you form by yourself, or in association with other Developers here.

It would be appreciated and legally sound if you would contact a member of Clickteam if you currently have intentions or future plans that might clash with the NDA we state here. In some cases, we are willing to overlook the implications of the NDA, e.g., you want to sell extensions for MMF commercially. There are, however, situations that can be rather complicated and require us to take full legal action as a defensive measure.

If the above does not apply to your situation, please do consider it carefully if you plan to continue with the EDT. If it does, please let me know and we will gladly remove you from the group as to not exacerbate the potential problems. Conflicts of interest are not pleasant. I would rather we have a clear understanding of the nature of this agreement.

I feel it is only fair to spell this out and hope that it does not sound to harsh or repelling as we really appreciate the efforts and productivity of the people who have signed on. There have been many benefits to the users thanks to you folks.

If you have any questions about this official notice, we can try to answer them if it is possible circumstantially.

Sincerely,
R. Schlick
Clickteam

I sent you a PM on this subject, but I would like you to reconsider this.

I do a lot of contract work, and if this is true, then I won't be able to stay in this group (barring a special arrangement).

I would like to stay in this group though...

EDIT: Cleared up.

I have replied in kind.

Thanks for your contact.

Just for the rest of the crew, I can say that no, your contracting out work is not a problem, nor would you be violating the NDA by creating commercial extensions in most circumstances.

Now, if you were going to work for, or start, a company that is, or is planning to, compete head-to-head with Clickteam's flagship product, then I think this aspect of the NDA would be obvious. This is especially applicable and problematic if you were already in the process of doing so prior to, or during, your association here and agreement to abide by the NDA. In fact, the NDA should imply the above as one of the potential scenarios that make it a required contract.

These things, and legal matters, can be rather complex, so I am hoping the basic idea of why this is being brought to everyone's attention is clear.

Yes, I can understand why that might cause problems.

I really have no idea what you are trying to say. What exactly is this stopping us from doing?

Basically you aren't allowed to use things you develop or learn here in other programs that could directly compete with MMF 2. For example you can't develop an extension for a bonus pack and turn around and make it for Construct.

Yes, that is a good sumation of the situation.

It has recently dawned on me that dozens of great extensions that were conceived, developed, and enhanced in the EDT forum where purposely not finished, (an many were almost ready to be published) most likely because of the Construct project.

While I am not the only one who was testing and suggesting, I did supply a lot of feedback based on time invested in working with those very needed and useful extensions. I was also personally looking forward to the finished verisons as I had become very enthused by them and really looked forward to using them as soon as they were published.

Now that I have digested the full impact of what was going on and why those extensions had suddenly stopped development and did not reach completion, it is a rather rude awakening and causes me to seriously reconsider the nature and structure of what we do here and how we do it. I never expected such a dissapointed outcome and a betrayal of confidence and contract. Not from people who were trusted, well treated, and close to me in various degress. It was pet program I started and was proud of for its close-knit commarderie and affinity.

Had the process continued as agreed upon, MMF users would now be enjoying many new features and capabilities that are now left floating in the wind and potentially going to be used as prototypes and source as tools for another product that may or may not come full term. We are now berift of at least two or three Bonus Packs that would have rocked users and set the threshold of creativity much higher.

Rest assured that the EDT is certainly not going to be shelved, but there are some major problems we have to face and resolve before we can proceed to the first Platinum Bonus Pack.

We at CT are discussing what to do and how to assure that what is created here stays here and is developed solely for the sake of MMF2 and not a potential competitor, no matter who it is and how uncertain its completion and viability may be.

Our loss, and that of the users, was very large and impactful to a degree that is not obvious until you look at the list and consider the progress and status of much of what was going on.

What extensions have been lost?

I don't recall the status of each one, or how many are by the ship jumpers, but I posted this from the old forum:

http://clickteam.com/center/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5962/an/0/page/1#Post5962

I think the list is fairly comprehensive.

Nova, the easiest way to keep developers is to pay them, or at the very least listen to them when they make suggestions.

I have said this before, however quite a few developers disbanded simply becuase they felt they had no say in how MMF 2 was being developed. An event that pissed many developers off was back when the convention attendants got the Beta before the developers did. I would not call keeping the developers in the dark, while the convention attendants got all the inside info, treating the developers "well".

Also what you must realize is that although you may have provided feedback on the extensions developed, the ideas for such extensions were created by the developers, and they were the developers ideas. If you are asking for any developer who submits an extension here to give up full control over their intellectual property for no pay, then I am not sure how many people are going to be "completely" willing to do that.

A few developers got pissed at how CT would say that a bug couldn't be fixed but then basically said that they wouldn't understand why. The developers are highly intelligent people (as this should be made perfectly clear), and they should not be treated as simply customers who are "allowed" to share their work, but as partners.

I can also assure you that imposing more rules, regulations, and restrictions to the things that are developed here, will only serve to hamper development. Discouraging developers from developing by increasing the rules will not serve to bring back the fun and creative enviroment that the EDT once was.

Now you have to realize that I am merely playing the devils advocate here. I have listened to many of the Construct developers thoughts on why they decided to leave, and as I was on the verge of leaving myself, I feel that I can share this information in hopes that CT won't make the same mistakes in the future.

Donald, you have a good point about the beta going to the convention people first. I was worried about that at the time.

This quote from Novabrain back in 2003 is the right idea IMO:
[]
Feel free to comment on this idea. So far, the thrid-party extension developers have been doing a great job and providing amazing power to users. Never before has there been any organized effort concerning extensions. Of course, participation is optional, but we certainly hope to make this focus of talent worthwhile and stimulating if we can. Of course, you will be entitled to free versions of MMF II, access to any new SDK's, and of course, your share of profits from the compilations. As you may know, Clickteam is encouraging these disks, and the developers, by only recouping the costs of production, so the profit is yours, collectively.[/]

Why not sell the packs and split the money between devs respectively? Free work has a habbit of not being able to maintain itself forever...

Many things will be changing on the way extension programmers are interacted with and contracted for in regards to bonus pack extensions and access to private information.

Most of the changes are to reward developers for their work and give them increased recognition for their work. (To include financial incentives)

A few smaller changes to protect Clickteam from financing code going directly into competing software products.

Clickteam would prefer to:
Purchase outright extensions to put in an official bonus pack.

We have not really wanted to sell bonus packs of extensions or graphics <img src="/center/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I would rather just give them away to all the users of MMF at no additional charge. With the experience of our userbase they do not react well to additional purchases and its just a hassle.

Now on the flip side:
If a developer wanted to market an extension themselves Clickteam would certainly give them full access to the userbase.

Ah yes, but the problem is the money there to do so?

CT have said themselves in the past that they are unable to purchase every extension. Why would it be fair for some devs to get paid for their work and not others? That would just serve to create a divide, and make devs unsure if the work they are investing into an extension would even be reimbursed by CT.

http://www.clickteam.com/CTforum/showflat.php3?Board=specialp&amp;Number=287762
Now I'm confused again...

IMO $40 isn't enough to purchase the rights to an extension that in some instances can take months of work. It would take 5-10 times that amount to adequately purchase an extension.

Perhaps the answer is for Clickteam to concentrate on quality rather than quantity. ie develop the ideas most likely to appeal to the most users.

Unfortunately there is no right and wrong answer in this subject really.

Firstly, as extension developers the options are.

1. Try and sell the extension yourself, of course we would help market it on CTs website/Mailshot.
2. Release an extension for free (which lots of people do without any input from CT)
3. CT trys where possible and pays towards development or full development (but can only do this for limited extensions) and not all. Unfortunately CT isnt a cash cow where it can pay for all extension development.

So though I appreciate that you wouldnt develop an extension for $40.. but its not meant to replace the development cost in most cases its meant as a gesture to those people who are developing extensions out of the kindness of their own hearts, as a bit of a sweetner.

As i said there is no right or wrong answer.

All we can do is try and make the situation better where possible.

Jason

I'd say that if you've spent several months on development, and are getting very positive feedback from the forum - go for it. Try selling it via CT.

You will need some way of guaranteeing support for it in years to come though.

What's the worst that can happen? Insufficient users buy it to adequately recompense your efforts. If this happens, but the extension is good and stable - it could still go in a bonus pack at a later date.

My point is that without sufficent money (which I know why it isn't avaliable) to keep the developers loyal, it shouldn't be supprising that things like this happen. And if CT were to impose restrictions that make it tougher on developers without increasing the reward, it would prove to be fatal in terms of the EDT.

So keep things the same, or increase the reward, but DON'T increase the rules without increasing the reward or you will see a decrease in extensions.

Well i think its been mentioned. If you want the potential to be paid for extension development your best bet is to ask CT what extensions they are looking for, and then get into discussion about costs. As a deal could be made based on cost/against need etc, like all businesses. <img src="/center/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

But i would add that the CT model is no different from even someone like Macromedia. They just list extensions that other people do. Some people charge, some people do it for free, or Macromedia use their own programmers. In fact Macromedia only sometimes (but very rarely) buy extension code made by third parties.

The NDA part is just to cover CT's back if it releases special code/products here in the first instance (eg like the Registry object), what we dont expect is people to use this information for their own benefit. Hope you can understand this, and if the NDA is wrongly worded or needs work please let us know, Im sure we can make it more appropriate. Were not trying to make things harder for anyone, just dont want bad things to happen.

Jason

Extensions can very from something crappy like my extension "Print it" to complex extensions like Vortex's Physics Engine and anything TurboFerret is working on <img src="/center/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

To speak honestly --- I paid for some extensions recently and I know that work has gone or will go right into Construct -- This is what I want to avoid in the future with a very clear NDA.

Clickteam will be greatly increasing the monetary payments for extensions due to our increased resources from the release of TGF2/MMF2.

Before the release of version 2 we didn't have the resources to purchase many extensions. Now we do and things will change.

Good to know <img src="/center/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

I hope we can all learn from the past so that we can work together towards a brighter future. Although mistakes have been made on all sides, by learning from them, we can ensure that they don't repeat themselves in the months and years to come.

Yes! Its excellent to get everything figured out so we can make everything easier and run smooth in the future.

Something easy and fair so everyone knows whats going on and is happy <img src="/center/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />