MMF2's speed.

Now, I do know that MMF2 is faster than MMF1, but I really have to say that, so far, with every [#$%!$] game project I've started, I've had speed issues within the first frame of the game EVERY TIME.

With MMF1 I never had any speed issues until I made something like a very large frame. But with MMF2 it's really ridiculous. My first project had scrolling in a top-view persepctive and it could have slowdown occasionally. That kinda turned me off and I got to making a new game, but then that slowed down tremendously within the first frame; this game a platformer.

Now, I've started a new project again, this time it's more of an RPG, and it's one single frame without any scrolling, it's 640x480, the frame has no animated objects yet, no backgrounds, basically just the essentials for the engine so far.

But guess what, I'm already having slowdowns. For the first two game projects I used layers and thought that they slowed down alot, and it was often true. This project has ONE layer, and yet it still slows down when I bring up a menu. It goes from 60 fps to 50, to be exact.

The frame uses little active object rotation and scaling, both of which I'd assume wouldn't eat up speed, and I'm no sure it is that specifically.

What I'm saying is, MMF2 can't seem to even be able to handle itself. I mean, all the new features are tacked on an old formula. The layers are rendered useless because of their slowdown, and I did encounter a problem when about 12 objects were resized to 2x at frame start. That is not good.

Why even implement these features when your program can't even handle them beyond making crap puzzlers or something of the like? I mean, MMF1 didn't have any significant slowdown for me, but I can't even make half a move in MMF2, let alone touch the new features, before I see the framerate chopping or even slow down to slow motion.

Why don't you put more effort into something more than the very, very basics? I don't have time to learn programming and I want to make one last dream game before I don't have time for that anymore, but I can't even get started.

I'm just really angry because MMF2 is still so [#$%!$] limiting... you're still stuck in making it software rendered or whatever it is called, when DirectX is actually for GAMES.

Is [#$%!$] even a swear?

I don't know how you're having so many issues, unless you're using a computer with low system specs. I'm making a game, ArcaneTale. It already has 12 layers, very complex offline and online code, a ton of graphics, etc, and I get full framerate without any slow downs at all.

You must be doing something wrong, make sure you have the latest build for MMF2 also.

Konjak, try and post an example. There must be something specific you are doing. Maybe combining Vsync with machine independent speed.

For info, my app runs at 1024*768, 16 bit with a large, constantly animating alpha channel character. Each frame uses at least 50MB. I took it into a school and they ran it on an old Windows 98 PC - much to my surprise, actually <img src="/center/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Well, woohoo, it still slows for me. I don't have any extra options because whenever I set on DirectX or Vsync the game gets even slower.

All else I can think of is that I use fastloops, but I used them fine in MMF1.

Post an example, it's the only way we can help. <img src="/center/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Is 50 fps so bad?! Do all the Xbox 360 games run at 60 fps solid? Did any of the arcade games we all know and loved? Is not an actual movie in a theatre 24 fps?

I find this 60 fps or the world is over idea very strange, yet all too common. I'll bet you 99 percent of all our favorite games were NOT 60 fps.

just my 2 cents

Hell, on the average computer videocard, games like Oblivion run at around 15 to 40fps, let alone 60.

You could code change the framerate up or down at different points in your game. Worth a try.

I can't change framerate during the game (considering it is changing its own framerate anyway), because you see it. Animations get slower. It's when I bring up a menu within the frame. I can't find the problem within the menu.

If I really can't work through this I'll post an example.

Ah Oblivion, the less said about the frame rate on that the better <img src="/center/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

What i would say is that Yves has done some great optimization to MMF since its release.. so make sure you have the lastest patches.

I would say though that the one area where most can improve the speed of their games/programs is by the way something is coded. I mentioned in one post previously how the power of MMF is that it allows anyone to make things easily, because you can make it in various ways. Of course the downside of this is that two people can make the same game and program it totally different. One can be fast the other slow.

So make sure you optimize your code.

If you can post your first frame, perhaps then it might show up a problem.
Jason

I'm very aware of this, I always find the best way to a minimum of events. Even then, I haven't gotten to that many events yet.

By the way, I'm making my game in a sort of forced "2x" view. The graphics are made like it is 320x240, because I don't have the energy to make giant sprites. First I had MMF2 make all these sprites 2x to save size and time, but that slowed down the game, even if it wasn't alot of objects, so I made them actually that size. That sometimes still slows the application for some reason.

Anyway, if the game is actually 320x240 I don't have slowdown issues whatsoever, but then the problem is I want you to use the mouse within the game, and doing so in 320x240 fullscreen makes the mouse hyper-sensitive to motion, and hard to control.

So if there was a way to adjust mouse sensitivity in-game it would solve everything...

You could increase the framerate when you bring up the menu. Or you could switch off unnecessary event groups. Lots of possibilities.

Are you using the standard menu, a popup or one of your own design?

It's a menu I made, plus, read my previous post because I edited it.

You can change the speed of the mouse with the Accessibility Wizard. Maybe an extension could tap into this.

What objects did you make your menu out of?

An example would still be helpful, but in absence of that here's some common things to check. You may know this already but these are some things I have found...

* If you have DirectX mode don't use ink effects. Put in standard mode if you want to do that.

* What colour depth is your Windows desktop and for applications? Some graphics cards can have a problem with some modes and even video displays that can contribute to poorer performance.

* Don't use machine independent speed with vsync (can appear choppy at times)

* I find vysnc and DirectX (with no ink effects or semi-transparencies) and a slightly higher refresh rate than the standard for the res you are targetting can help improve the appearance of performance (smoother). Eg: 640x480 full screen (change res) at 70fps +vysnc (the monitor refresh rate is normally 60hz unless you override this in your graphic driver control panel).

* if you use real time scaling and / or rotations, MMF has to do more work to transform it.

* each layer that changes would mean MMF2 has to do more work, so plan your use of layers rather carefully. Lots of layers are fine too - if they are not changing too much.

* Are you watching a lot of stuff in the debugger? In jamagic, it can be a bit of a load on the game running to monitor lots of objects and properties. I tend to only turn it on when I want to debug something... worth a try in MMF2 too.

* You got your drivers up to date?

What's your pc set up out of interest (I assume your not running on a P166 with a Kelvin 64 on a VESA local bus? - like one of my old PC's <img src="/center/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />)

The only stuff you listed would be I have 16 million colors on and I use real time scaling and rotation, but very little so far.

No layers at all.

Anyway, I have created a work-around. I made the game 320x240 and all the sprites the sizes for it, then had Window Control make the application 2x, which apparently is faster, because it doesn't slow from using 60fps now.

Only downside now is that bar counters aren't as precise, but oh well.

I'm kind of baffled with what's going on <img src="/center/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> The character I'm moving around, resizing for fake 3D, checking for overlapping, checking for within different zones and animating at the same time - is 250*200 pixels. So it's almost as big as your window, and it moves against a 1024*768 detailed background. And it maintains a framerate of 68-70 fps <img src="/center/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

My window was 640x480.

If ya post an example, let's see how it performs on other computers. If it is a common problem, would at least allow CT to look in to it. But like Sarah, I have yet to see the problems you are having. I'n not tested on anything slower than an athlon 1900 yet. I've a PIII-450 I can try it on too.

In my testing around, MMF slowed a great deal just from 20-30 actives the size of 96x96 that I placed randomly...

Using runtime scaling and rotating uses up A LOT of performance. Even more so if set to quality mode. Got a test game and it goes down by almost 40 fps when tiny rotated + scaled objects are created (in quality mode).

I really hope the code for this can be improved. Because actually I only use quality mode, because otherwise objects rotated to the left look different than if they are rotated to the right.
So either quality mode should be faster or non-quality mode should look the same, no matter if rotated left OR right.

I'm not using rotating - that's all done with animation. For scaling, I use standard (0) when the character is moving, and quality when it stops.

Random, in what way does it look different, rotating right and left? Is it because with a tiny object, the hotspot can't be exactly central?

"I'm kind of baffled with what's going on The character I'm moving around, resizing for fake 3D, checking for overlapping, checking for within different zones and animating at the same time - is 250*200 pixels. So it's almost as big as your window, and it moves against a 1024*768 detailed background. And it maintains a framerate of 68-70 fps"


PROVE IT

I've been getting some frame drops from a loop that runs 15 times per frame that affects all enemies (Physics). I had something similar completely slowdown my game on MMF1 but this is optimised. Why does MMF2 hate fastloops so much.

Prove it <img src="/center/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I did demo this app with MMF1.5 at the last convention. Come to the next and I'll show you it running under MMF2 <img src="/center/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

MMF2 gave me the ability to have different sized frames with the alpha channel in the AO. This made a big difference to loading times and performance.

Oh - and I forgot to mention - my PC is almost 4 years old <img src="/center/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

The lowest framerate I got MMF2 to run, was 1fps, and that's because I used the change framerate. <img src="/center/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

[]Random, in what way does it look different, rotating right and left? Is it because with a tiny object, the hotspot can't be exactly central? [/]
To the right, it looks okay - to the left, pixels get omitted and disappear (and as it is a very small object it gets invisible with most angles). As it is for a particle effect, it then seems as if to the right there are more than to the left.

Is it possible to make MMF pre-render all the possible rotation positions of an object as oposed to doing it at runtime (because i need 360 degrees but speed is more important than disk space).

I use scaling and rotation and layers - Any tips and tricks to keep my FPS as high as poss?

Also is it better to have FPS capped at 60 than 80? Currently its at 80 and im getting slowdowns to around 50 at times.

What would you guys reccomend?