[Request] Alpha Text Object

This object acts like a normal text object by allowing text input from the developer that will be displayed, changed, or removed at runtime. However, this object would have an interface much like how the new counters are where a set of alphabetic characters are replaceable with images... such as images that have alpha-transparencies. This is to allow developers to pre-generate great looking text in programs like Photoshop and then use them in their programs.

Anyone else think something like this is needed?

This would be a very cool idea.

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Originally Posted by Jeff

This would be a very cool idea.

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So great they made the Text Blitter object. Not sure about the alpha tho.

I can envision something a bit improved over the great Text Blitter....

Text Blitter is great but having something along the lines of an counter but with images of Alpha characters might be neat.

But when text blitter will support alpha channel and MMF2 filters, it will do exactly what you want no ?

Maybe an option to allow differents width for any characters can be usefule of course... :)

I will have to go look at Text Blitter (its been a long time) but I don't think it has the internal image editor like the counter does, does it?

Like the counter where you can put in an image for 0 thru 9
A image text extension where you put in letters A thru Z

but maybe Text Blitter does it all and no one needs this.

TB can use a char map of rendered text, but it doesn't support alpha... something like how the counters deal with numbers would be easier anyway because then you don't have to worry about the offsets for the char map - and it would have to support all chars of a font such as french accents etc.

I think TB must be improved for MMF2 and it will be very useful. :)

An option to set different characters width (or an option wich erase at display the blank pixels beetween two characters) and the support of alpha channel will make this object the better text object. :)

It would be awesomely cool if either Text Blitter were updated, or possibly if Clickteam made a Font Object (possibly based on some of their code in the Counter object?).

It would be great if it could feature an editor where you could draw characters individually, instead of within a map (this would let you set different sizes, etc), just as the Counter does. You could also use alpha maps.

What's more, you could determine which character corresponded to which ascii code.

You could use the hotspot to set an offset for individual characters (if you wanted a comic-like appearance where letters are a little wonky, or if you wanted letters all to have the same baseline, even though their heights differed)

And setting a 'horizontal space' and 'vertical space' set of vars, which can also be negative (so you can bunch letters and lines up together).

That'd be so cool!

I think whoever made text blitter should split it up into seperate extensions - it is very powerful yet rather complicated to use

First and foremost we need to be able to have variable letter sizes, not just monospace, man.

Bumping this for great justice and more input from others.

Bump, because it's been almost three years and we still need this.

We do! I wish I had some money to pay an extension developer though... Unlike the text blitter, we also need an extension that can share the text images between the object instances. The text blitter allocates RAM for the entire picture for every instance, that's really horrible :(

This would be such a great extension!

An extension developer may be willing to work on this... I'll let you know. I'll pay for the development, and it will be released publicly. :)

Right now I'm just asking for an extension which can import fonts made with this program: http://www.angelcode.com/products/bmfont/

If you have features you want included just post them here.

-The ability to return the visible size of the string.
-Have a cache that stores the images for the object and all instances of it can access it.
-Built-in text backdrop handling (for talk balloons ect.) with separate opacity controls.
-Scrolling, text effect (like textblitter: sinewave ect.)
-Ability to check which character is at a specific position (ex. get character # at (x,y))
-Variable length font
-Switch between fonts mid string.
(ex code: -Set font cache (0) -Add text ("Hello") -Set font cache (1) -Add text (" there!") )

I'll think of more ideas later.

I defintely think we need this. Variable width spacing without using TextBlitter hacks would be awesome. I also think that an edit interface like the counters we have now would be cool. Though I don't really mind as long as it works :)

A way to return the pixel width of a string before displaying it would be awesome too! It would make a custom word wrapping engine easier.

Like: Get X width of string ("Hello") with cache (0)

I would like to see support for control characters within a string. In making games with a lot of text, being able to program the script with some simple control characters would make it quite a bit easier to display stuff to fit inside little RPG windows. For example, characters to represent the following:

Newline
Pause for x frames
Pause pending keystroke (Have a state to return so that events can be processed on pause, or during pause, such as displaying a custom "press any key" symbol)
Block text separator (to separate blocks of text which could be referenced later)

Furthermore, it would be nice to support these along with UTF-8 format, so that it would be easy to translate into other languages. I think if a new text blitter would be allowed to load external script files, that would also be a boon.

The old Text Blitter supported "Balloons", which are cool and all, but if a new tool would have "Balloon" support, please make it so that it would use a different image map, and not the same as the character map. Please also leave the possibility to adjust all settings of both of these maps at runtime, in case different character sets or balloon tilemaps need to be substituted or defined by an external file for some reason (say, an RPG engine).

Having the ability to load and cycle through multiple strings in a script using a block format system would be nice, to create NPC's with multiple things to say depending on external conditions.

Automating certain animation functions is always nice. The original sine scrollers were neat, but how about something that displays the characters one at a time pending a timer? A timer which could be changed at runtime to slow down or speed up the display of the characters, that would be cool.

Also, automating a "press a key" symbol into the object as some sort of dipswitch would be excellent. That is to say, if a block of text exceeds the size of the textblitter's bounds, display a character from the set to indicate to the user that they need to press a button to see more text. It would be neat if the transitions between these could have animations, as well.


Edit: There were a lot of good suggestions for a similar object for Construct earlier this year. I think anyone potentially developing a new textblitter object could take into consideration all the stuff mentioned in this thread. I made several suggestions myself back then, which once I remember all the details I'll try to repeat succinctly here as well.

Edit2: Removed link pending explicit permission from a forum mod (?)

Dude I'm pretty sure linking a competitors product is against the rules.

Yeah it is as 2 threads were deleted for this reason the other day so i now know for a fact it is. I see MMF mentioned on that other forum quite a bit though so i guess they don't have the same rules also.

If this thread is deleted for that reason I will completely disown Clickteam, and immediately move on to other software, as it has already happened plenty of times in the past and is ridiculous!

Why is everyone so obsessed with the text blitter object. You can easily achieve custom fonts with the Overlay object. And if you want an alpha channel, just throw in the alpha channel object.

Some of us produce professional games, and we want our text to look great. What you're suggesting is lame. Perhaps I should commission this object and keep it for our own private development.

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Originally Posted by Pkeod

Some of us produce professional games, and we want our text to look great. What you're suggesting is lame. Perhaps I should commission this object and keep it for our own private development.

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Dude, what you're saying is just weird (not to mention rude). There are so many things in MMF you have to do in workarounds. Why would you wait for an extension if you can code it with what you already have?

You do not appreciate nor understand the value in having an extension like this. Please just leave this thread and do not return.

So much for being open to alternative suggestions. And hospitality.

the way overlay works is not an acceptable workaround, hernan... even the original developer never intended for its drawing surface to be used for all sorts of super-advanced stuff. I can't imagine such a system being very versatile within MMF considering the number of workarounds necessary to have it operate at an acceptable level.

On that note, I should mention that I haven't tried using overlay or the alpha channel object for a complex job like this before, but I have (and am actively using) Actives to create anti-aliased glyphs in a current project I'm working on right now. Considering the amount of complexity that was needed simply to have glyphs on-screen, I'd hate to think of what it would take to implement a scripting system, plus word-wrap, plus some way to map UTF-8 characters to letters in this system.

Actually, beyond a simple 26 letter charset, it gets really annoying to implement a system like this. I'm already using a custom extension to convert between ASCII and character codes. This would probably be impossible to do in MMF with any sort of unicode support, no matter how many workarounds one can propose.

I'm just irritated about off topic posts. If you want to post an example somewhere then do it. If you have feature ideas for this extension then post them here.

If you had worked on many big games and worked with MMF with all possible alternatives, you would understand. Maybe someone else can explain to you why a Modern Bitmap Font Extension is so necessary.

I don't see how pasting letters to the overlay is super advanced nor complex. I'm very aware of MMF's limitations. Even as a hobbyist, I try to push MMF to its limits. Many times realizing that it's not possible in MMF without any custom extensions, or needing to do extensive workarounds.
My suggestion is not completely off topic, as it hints on how to do bitmap fonts without an extension you have been waiting 3(!) years for. I'm not saying a new kind of Text Blitter extension isn't useless, it would be very cool even. I'm just saying you don't always need to conclude it's impossible to do in MMF and outsource to extensions. So my point is completely valid. Normally I wouldn't make such a big deal of this, if Pkeod didn't go being so rude all of a sudden.

The objective is to get great looking text, without having to waste space in terms of hard drive space, or ram.

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Why is everyone so obsessed with the text blitter object.

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This seemed rude to me. It's like saying: "why do you care so much about high level languages, when you can code a program all in assembly? I don't understand why you're so obsessed with productivity."

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You can easily achieve custom fonts with the Overlay object. And if you want an alpha channel, just throw in the alpha channel object.

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Please, create an example showing how easily you can implement all of the modern features that have been suggested in this thread, while allowing fidelity between projects, non latin characters, and over all ease of use. Your example must be bug free, and it must work on XP-7.

Hernan, we've done text a lot of different ways, and all of the manual ways within MMF are a waste of time in the grand scheme of our development cycles. This extension would also allow novices to quickly get great looking text in their games, and with the features they want without any hassle. The old extensions are all out of date and no longer relevant to modern needs.

Gee Brian.

Marv

The reason why I said "obsessed with the text blitter object" is because you have been waiting 3 years for something you can already do in MMF. With that I mean bitmap fonts with alpha channel (see explanation below)

I do have a VWF text engine using overlays. I'm not going all out to make an example with alpha channels (especially not for you). I was thinking of making a widget out of it though.

The two key features in this thread are variable width text and alpha channel. Variable width text can be achieved by correctly copying letters from one overlay to another (this one being the surface you want to display). The alpha channel object has function to interact with the overlay object. Image/Alpha -> Overlay and vice versa.

You underestimate what is needed, as the community's needs have evolved these past three years.

Three years for a feature set that seems like it should be a part of the main program (it's a feature rich part of many other modern game development tools), a simple solution to a problem: a simple, native way to display bitmap fonts within MMF with no hacking or trickery, and with the features that are expect. We've tackled the problem in several ways with MMF, but these solutions all have their own caveats, and your solution is no better until proven otherwise, and though my intention was not to insult you, I am just tired and your suggestions do not help until you show me that it's a solid method that is not standard practice for some odd reason. I apologize if I've offended you... again that was not my intent

Text Blitter was the solution for OK looking text in MMF 1.5, but it has not aged well. Text Blitter can be hacked to have VW too, but it's a bad extension to use in its current state, and the object is severely lacking in functionality. The Overlay object is also an object which, I believe, shouldn't be used in mass distributions like we do as I think with tested it has proven to be unreliable and can cause problems on many machines. We are very careful with which third party extensions we use, and are especially wary of extensions originally made for past version of MMF, past operating systems. Please consider this particular discussion over unless you intend to post an example for the rest of the forum (which, I would guess would have above average CPU usage). You don't have to, this extension will be made available to the public eventually.

If you have more features ideas don't hesitate to post them. Surly variable wide and alpha support are note the only features a Modern Bitmap Font Object should have (see other ideas already posted above). ;)

Just to say again to clear misunderstandings: I do not oppose to any extension. Everything you say is true. Extensions provide much better interfaces, which is good for new users, and antyhing you do outside the MMF loop (especially graphical related stuff) is much better. I'm sorry if I seemed rude on my first post, but I was just trying to say you can do bitmap fonts with overlays and alpha channels without needing extensions. That's all :P

I agree this would be a cool extension. Sure you can do lots of things in MMF with various work arounds, but why bother when you can get an extension to do the job easier and much faster.
I have never really played much with the text blitter because it's a bit cumbersome, but if this extension was made I would definately be interested in using it.

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Originally Posted by Pkeod

If this thread is deleted for that reason I will completely disown Clickteam, and immediately move on to other software, as it has already happened plenty of times in the past and is ridiculous!

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I would hope that your loyalty to Clickteam would extend beyond getting a thread removed due to not following their rules... :whistle:

stephen1980

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Originally Posted by stephen1980

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Originally Posted by Pkeod

If this thread is deleted for that reason I will completely disown Clickteam, and immediately move on to other software, as it has already happened plenty of times in the past and is ridiculous!

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I would hope that your loyalty to Clickteam would extend beyond getting a thread removed due to not following their rules... :whistle:

stephen1980

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It's the thought that counts. If this topic was locked or deleted for something as asinine as that, it would be the final straw for me, and I would strive to move on from contributing to this community. Many topics and threads have been locked and deleted in the past which had the effect of only making me lose trust and faith in Clickteam. :(

The amazing work Yves and Francois do is really the only thing keeping us with MMF a this point. :)

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Originally Posted by Pkeod

The amazing work Yves and Francois do is really the only thing keeping us with MMF a this point. :)

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:O what about the others? :D

Great idea for an extension btw! I think Francios was making an object that makes bitmap fonts and such for Java/Java Mobile...

Lemme look

Its called MobileFont

http://www.clickteam.com/epicenter/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=161356&page=2

Does that seem to do what this does? minus Alpha I mean...