Surface object plan

The overlay object needs a serious update. I doubt such a big update for the old object is good, so here are the plans for a more dedicated object focused on directly manipulating graphical surfaces, including ones with alpha channels.

Have a look at the actions and expressions
http://andos.stiaxies.net/stuff/Surface.txt

Feedback, ideas, suggestions, changes and anything is appreciated.

Also I don't know if I have time to make such an object, I just sketched out the most needed actions/expressions if I were to use the object :)

I agree, we do need a new, better version of the Overlay. Good to see some ideas coming up.

Anyone who had the beta of the surface object I made a while back- sorry guys, I lost the source in a hard drive failure.

Maybe you could allow release it just for fun, for people to play with. Maybe somebody can make something of it even if it is buggy. I still have a copy.

IMHO that would just make confusion later when people have to replace the object with the new one.

Jam, what SDK kit did you use to make this extension and what complier version did you use? I mean exactly, cos it's an unusual extension in its makeup.

Andos, you will only confuse people if you want to use the same filename, we could call the filename surfaceExp.mfx and call the next version surface 2 Object.

What do you mean it's an unusual extension in its makeup? I doubt you decompiled it.

I have the overlay source and I plan to upgrade it very soon.

I plan to add new image formats, alpha channels, support for GDI+, arc and curve drawing, gradients, dashed lines, and other features of GDI+.

About new formats image, maybe you can support MMF2 image formats only and ask Yves how to create new ones.

It's better to create new filters for MMF2 and let all extensions take advantage of them than create several filters that only your extension will use. ;)

That is what I had planned to do :P.

I think the overlay object should be phased out.. It works in the background and looking from an OOP-perspective, the naming of the object is just terrible.
Professionals will look at MMF2 and think we have all sorts of crazy ways of doing things and illogical names compared to other professional packages. In all other development environments, something you draw on is either called a texture,canvas,surface or something close. Not "Overlay object".
Also the auto-inking features are kinda misplaced in the object in my opinion.

In my opinion MMF2 should get more logically named objects that does what they are meant to do.

Joewski: I wouldn't name the extension the same. It's just that releasing an unfinished beta of something

Vortex2: In my opinion (again) I would hope the overlay object would get a better programmed (from the bottom) replacement that does everything what most people use it for: drawing graphical surfaces for various uses.
People can still use it as an "overlay object" that way around if they want to, but the name "overlay object" and some of the features it has just doesn't fit the scene.

The name of Overlay object could be changed without breaking compatibility with old overlay redux objects. Maybe the name "Canvas object" could be good for welcoming the new features.

But in my opinion it's not very important how you name it since we have features. ;)

I think it would be easier to just reprogram the lot, maybe use the old code as a reference if allowed.
All that data in the edit time structure of overlay redux objects has to be changed.

The INK effects should now be stored different, no auto-inking, it's a foreground object (active), remove unnecessary actions/expressions and adding new ones and still keep the code somewhat readable.. I say good luck ;)

Hmm that is a point. Perhaps I should just start from scratch?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jam

What do you mean it's an unusual extension in its makeup? I doubt you decompiled it.

---

Well that it, you can't examine or edit it in a resource editor like "Resource hacker". I was going to offer to edit the surface object when I released that I couldn't do it. So I thought it would be interesting to know how you did this. Is this a feature of the new SDK?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sphax

The name of Overlay object could be changed without breaking compatibility with old overlay redux objects. Maybe the name "Canvas object" could be good for welcoming the new features.

But in my opinion it's not very important how you name it since we have features. ;)

---

The Overlay object is here to say. It's documented, its exampled and is being used by developers. If Vortex2 choose to add more feature then I think the name could stay the same, if he chooses. It easier from a documentation point of view if only a few extra features are added.

If Vortex2 recodes the Overlay Object or adds substantial changes, then he may wish to distances himself from the bug lists and version updates from the Overlay Object. This would be better from a ClickWiki point of view as well.

Quote:

---

Well that it, you can't examine or edit it in a resource editor like "Resource hacker". I was going to offer to edit the surface object when I released that I couldn't do it. So I thought it would be interesting to know how you did this. Is this a feature of the new SDK?

---

Resource hacker is useless! The only thing you could do with that is change the icon or author information. Trust me, I have done a lot of disassembling/code injection/hex editing (nothing dodgy/illegal though!)

If you really wanted to edit the code, you would be best learning assembly and using something like OllyDbg, which is not worth it at all.

However, with the right knowledge, it is possible to do almost anything to compiled code. It is usually more time consuming than just starting from the beginning, unfortunately. That said, if anyone has any sourceless beta extensions which work fine, but with a popup or similar, I can probably remove the popup if I have permission from the developer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jam

Resource hacker is useless! The only thing you could do with that is change the icon or author information. Trust me, I have done a lot of disassembling/code injection/hex editing (nothing dodgy/illegal though!)

If you really wanted to edit the code, you would be best learning assembly and using something like OllyDbg, which is not worth it at all.

However, with the right knowledge, it is possible to do almost anything to compiled code.

---

Hey, Hey, I know assembler, I can use a hex editor too, and have a pile of tools, [cool]

I was thinking of fixing the icon for you. Thats how I discovered resource hackers couldn't open the extension for editing. I know its nothing special, but then again its quick and is great for (language localizing) applications and extensions. Ever wondered how Click Products are used around the world? ie Germany, Poland, France, Japan. People localize their copies of files.

So, I was just wondering how you made you extension obscure to simple resource editors using the standard templates?

As everyone probably knows, the Overlay was initially intended as an area detection tool. It was soon discovered that you could get some great effects and more out of it by using it to draw to the screen.

Over time, it morphed into a rather useful, even powerful tool that filled a large gap in MMF. So, it is rather hybrid and a standard. Where to go from there is the question, i.e., the name, features, etc.

Ehh Novabrain I think you've posted to the wrong thread. But its an interesting comment.

His post seems perfectly relevant to me O_o.

I thought it was for the discussion for the updating of the overlay object.

Yes if it is intended for this thread as an example, I agree with his comments how an object can evolve into something else.

I think it's a better choice to update actual Overlay object (even if his name will not be the same as before) than create another.

Um.. why? It isn't exactly hard to make a surface object, especially with the cSurface class- and a lot of the overlay object's features are more suited to MMF1.5.

Why ? Because with an update, all projects that actually use Overlay object will be updated thanks to the new version of Overlay object. A new version of Overlay object compatible with the old one is better than a totaly new object redundant and incompatible with the old version.