Qualifiers aren't being consistant like Objects?

Alright, so this has been happening to me pretty consistently lately in my newest project. I'm not entirely sure if this is a problem with my programing or not, but I've been sitting here for hours trying to work out what was wrong.

Now I don't see the point in typing all this out, so here are some screenshot examples of what I'm facing with here.
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e4.../Qualifier.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e42/GoldenSonic3000/Qualifier.jpg

In the above screenshot, the event seems to fire inconsistently. It seems random, even though every time I run the application, it's consistent in doing the exact same inconsistent thing. I don't get it!

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e4...Qualifier2.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e42/GoldenSonic3000/Qualifier2.jpg

However in this screenshot, you can see, the only thing I did was replace the Group.Traps with a Concrete block (and any other object that has Group.Traps attached to it) and it will actually function exactly the way it should.

Is there anything here that I should know? I am not prepared to blame MMF2 for this issue, I'm merely asking if I'm missing a critical part about how Qualifiers function, that's causing me to misunderstand the work flow of my games coding.

The only possibly helpful thing I can say is to be cautious when using qualifiers. Many have tried to discover how their selection properties work, but all have failed. :(

Maybe Yves can give us some inside on this? Because Qualifiers are one of the most useful things I can use when it comes to my projects, and to see them be the soul reason for glitches, really upsets me. :(

basically, a qualifier is treated as a virtual "object", and all objects with that qualifier are considered instances of that "object", even if they're completely different objects (as yuo've probably noticed)

so two completely different objects under the same qualifier can have selection "bleeding"; each instance group of your real objects is being affected by object selection as they normally would, but they're getting an additional selection pass since they're all instances of the group (so one object group can indirectly affect another, even when the other group isn't directly referenced anywhere)... i don't know if that's the case here, but it's possible

at least that's how i think selection with groups works

If you could reduce the complexity of the example and send it to me, I could have a look...
Thanks

Actually I was able to some how fix how it was working, by removing the qualifier from the upper green sensor? Maybe that might help explain what it's doing?

You know I've all but ceased using Qualifiers now. I've gotten too many strange things happening and when I use Qualifiers it seems to happen. I've had graphics switching to everything including counters!? So i'm doing everything the hard and tedious way now. I think qualifers are great for simple games and ideas, but heavy ones I've noticed seem to really go haywire eventually...

I hate to say anything negative about MMF 2 but in this case I think qualifiers are really unstable now. I don't know if it's the complexity of the things I'm doing or something getting undone in the last builds but I've really started trying "Not" to use qualifiers if I can avoid them... [frown]

Same here. I've had too many nasty bugs related to qualifiers that were very hard to track down..

I never use qualifiers because most of the time they never work when I try to treat them the way they were meant to be treated. There ought to be a whole topic for reporting qualifier bugs.

There ought to be a whole programmer, just to fix the qualifier bugs ;)

Well I actually haven't had much issues with qualifiers at all, in fact they are insanely useful for me. This has been a rare occurrence for me and I use them very frequently.

Maybe in the next build this will be corrected.

Could you try "Qualifier overlaps object" instead of "Object overlaps qualifier"? This was usually the solution to qualifier problems in TGF1, so it may be worth a shot. I haven't really seen that many bugs with qualifiers in MMF2 anymore though.

It got a lot less. Usually I can't point my finger at anything non-working in particular. It just has the tendency to stab me in the back whenever possible.

For some reason the order in which you select objects with 2-object conditions greatly affects the object selection system, the first object is usually the main one, and also when you want to select object by values use compare to the objects values, not compare two general values because that will not select and specific objects. There should be a way to choose which objects to select, like a checkbox thing after selecting the two objects.

if qualifiers are the problem has anyone tried instead using the select object extension and have alterable values set on each object to represent its "group"

ill go try and see how it works

(sorry yes this thread is a little old)

nvm doesn't work, you need to specify what object with the select extension, cant do global

It would be nice if MMF had some sort of object abstraction - like "Active Object", that represents all active objects and holds all the functions, actions and conditions that every active object shares.

With that you wouldn't have to use qualifiers, ever.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mook06

nvm doesn't work, you need to specify what object with the select extension, cant do global

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You can do it with the 'Create Object' obect by selecting all objects with a certian alterable value! :D

That's true, but for meaningful actions you need to know what object it is again..