This is ridiculous

It annoys me to no end how many glitches/bugs MMF2 has.

In my application, in the first frame I set a music sample to play at the start of the frame. I have set samples to play over frames, so when I jump to my second frame the sample should still be playing. The second frame has no events that affect the stopping/starting of the sample.

Exactly half of time I run the app the sample continues playing onto the second frame. The other half it stops at the second frame. It's the most ridiculous thing I've ever experienced. I'm not changing any events or objects at all, I'm just repeatedly running the application. Any ideas to what may be going on?

Edit: If I click once inside the application in the first frame, the music sample continues to the next frame. If I do nothing and wait for it to jump to the next frame, the sample stops at the next frame.

"many glitches/bugs MMF2 has"

This is news to me, having used MMF2 for 4 years.

Would you upload your mfa so we can see the problem you are having?

Thanks

Marv

Which build of MMF2 are you using?

Do you have "Do not mute samples if application loses focus" checked?

Lock/delete this. What RickyRombo said helped, thanks!

It's not good to lock or delete solved threads, as the results may help other users who search the forums for a solution. Then they may bump the thread to ask a simple question not worth starting a new thread. ;)

Yay! Glad I could help :)

I added the above solution to the FusionWiki's FAQ section.

You do know also that MMF has 32 different sound channels available also?

the built-in sound object of MMF2 is really useless for musics.

It cannot play musics from the common format (eg: .mp3, .ogg and .wma)..

So.. in fact do not use the inbuilt sound object.

Personnaly, instead the inbuild Sound Object of MMF2, i like and prefer the Miniature Audiere sound object written by Jamie. It's really better than ONU (because ONU cannot read MP3 files..) and less complicated than the Advance Sound (renammed to Sound) object written by Looki.

Because the object written by Looki include a Generator of SoundEffects.. but.. for musics, it's useless too.

The built in sound engine can play ogg files just fine?

You need to use the "play sample" action the "play music" action is for MIDI type of files.

Well i think Clickteam built MMF 2 that way because the license for MP3 is so outrageously expensive.

Then just for .wma and .mp3 then.

For .ogg sorry, i did just see this.

But it's not logic of playing a .ogg files as a Sample, because some .ogg files are just musics (also containing sounds, yes.. but, certainly most used as musics not samples).

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Originally Posted by 00J

Well i think Clickteam built MMF 2 that way because the license for MP3 is so outrageously expensive.

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Yes.. but i have more .mp3/.wma files on my computer than .ogg files.

Then MP3 is seriously a common format.
(i don't know the cost of the license of MP3 rights. But i can affirm this is the most common used format of sounds and musics.)

You can easily convert the files to oog using a free tool such as Audacity. Real fast easy to use.

Marv

I know, nivram, but this is a loss of time.

In MMF:

Play Sample -- Sample is just a word for a file format type basically its a waveform type of file.

Play Music -- Music is just a word to describe a sound file format where the file does not actually contain an audio signal -- its more of a mathematical representation of the sound and the computer on which it is played generates the sounds. (perhaps someone better versed in this can give a better descriptions)

In MMF the terms sample and music have nothing to do with what the sound is being used for -- they are terms to describe the 2 different formats of sounds you can play.

Music is a misnomer - it's actually only for MIDI files, which you shouldn't be using anyway. MIDI files basically contain the notes of the music and the "name" of the instrument to play them with, so they sound different on different machines.

"Sample" is used to play OGG and WAV files (actual audio data) but it's also used to play modules (MOD, IT, XM, ...), which would be better categorised under music. Modules contain both notes and the audio data of the instruments to play them with, so they sound the same everywhere.

Trust me, theses terms confused me.

But, i'm was thinking of the "Sample" was a "Effects" during a bit of time instead Musics.

This is why i was confused.

Thanks for the precisions both, Jeff and Jamie ;)

I think its funny how OP raged about MMF being glitchy and then told a solution and then he asked for the thread to be closed without him actually apologising about his first comments

Well, the way it's labeled as music and sample still doesn't make sense as 1: it's rare to use midi files for game music, 2: oggs can be used as music, 3: modules can be used as atmospheres and sound effects. To me, the logical answer is to drop the midi support (do people still use midi files for game music?) and either remove "music" completely, or keep the feature there while actually letting "play sample" and "play music" handle the same file formats.

Of course this is going to confuse people right now, as it's logical to think of the features being for playing sounds and music, not what type of file it is or how the file format is technically played.

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Then MP3 is seriously a common format.
(i don't know the cost of the license of MP3 rights. But i can affirm this is the most common used format of sounds and musics.)

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It's common for listeners, not in game development. If you look at the credits of even a commercial game, it's not uncommon that you'll see a vorbis and sometimes even theora credit or logotype. Ogg sounds better with lower bitrates, nobody have to pay for a license, they loop properly (mp3 files don't due to a 20 millisecond pause that's added to the beginning of the song when it's encoded). Just ask your musicians to give you oggs (or wavs so you can ogg encode them yourself) and it'll all be fine.

Honestly this is what REALLY should be added to the FAQ :)

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Originally Posted by Nifflas

drop the midi support (do people still use midi files for game music?)

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Yes, it's still very important format e.g. for mid/low-end mobile phones (J2ME)! The max. jar size can be something like 750Kb on many phones, and while an empty app is pretty much 300Kb already, there's really no possibility to use any other music format than midi. So midi support definitely should not be dropped.

Ah, I didn't actually realize that, I sometime forget about the Java build types.

The best soltion could possibly be to have the 32 sound channels and a single music channel, while permitting any format to be played on both the sample and music channel (apart from .mid files which for technical reasons have to go into the music channel only).

Agreed that OGG is better for game music.
Anything beyond that and WAV, (like MOD files), is for extensions to handle.

If you don't like MIDI, why not change your machine's soundfont?
This is very difficult with 64-bit machines though, which is a pity because apparently Win7's MIDI wavetable is even worse than XP's.

"Midi vs. Samples" is a leftover term from the original KNP. Back then, MP3's, OGG's, etc were practically nonexistent. Pretty much all commercial games used MIDI music at the time.

I love midi and mods.

Don't ever remove them.

Midis and Mods don't be dropped, that is a true reality.

But.. Ok, then in MMF2, labelized "music" can be read only .mid files is.. a joke (seeing the year is 2010..., in 2010, many games use other format than .mid files)

So, ok Nifflas, i'll encode all .mp3 i have to the .ogg format.

ps: i don't have any musicians, i create my sounds and musics in Fruity Loops Studio", but actually it doesn't support .ogg format, that is why i said it's a "loss of time".. perhaps with their last updates.. or perhaps with the Producer version.. But i don't have theses versions, i have only Standard Fruity Loops.

So. Perhaps you use an another software for creating your musics guys?

Why not just rename the option to "Play MIDI file" if that's all that "Play Music" addresses.

That kills the illusion that you can't use OGG for your music.

I mean, if it costs a truckload to licence MP3 capability, then it's unavoidable. What other formats do you suggest? WMA is good but not that many people 'use' it. That's why unofficial extensions are such a great sidestep around the problem.

And you can't expect MMF2 to handle MOD tracker files without extensions either because it's a huge minefield area. Even MODPlug doesn't get it right all the time, and that's all it does.

Other than presumably MP3, what does Fruity Loops export to, out of interest?

I would definitely not remove support for modules. They are very useful for games, as you can download thousands of them online, and also are very small (many are about 50KB). Extensions such as ONU do play them better than MMF does, but using ONU requires the modules to be external to the application. And really there's no reason to remove a feature that already exists, it not like it's hurting anyone.

I think that Play Sample and Play Music should just be combined into "Play Sound." Play Music is rather useless IMO. I used it for about the first month I used MMF and haven't used it since. MIDIs are way too uncommon to need their own actions for, so having Play Music as an option will only lure new users away from Play Sample. I also think that Play Sample is a rather poor naming choice, and could somewhat confuse new users also. Just combining the two into "Sounds" would simplify everything.

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If you don't like MIDI, why not change your machine's soundfont?

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The real problem is that they sound different depending on system, hardware, or software synthesizer. I can't really ask anyone to load a specific soundbank or use a specific GM synthesizer. However, I suppose .mid support have to be kept for the sake of the mobile java build types.

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And you can't expect MMF2 to handle MOD tracker files without extensions either because it's a huge minefield area. Even MODPlug doesn't get it right all the time, and that's all it does.

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Why not? It does play them already, the player is quite accurate too, as long as you try your modules with your MMF2 application and make adjustments accordingly to deal with possible quirks (and I haven't noticed that many, perhaps some minor stuff with e.g. the note retrigger command).

It's actually nice enough to be really useful, the main flaw is that it doesn't follow the pattern jump commands (this is an issue for two reasons; first that you can't create a song with an intro that will be skipped when the song loops, and second it seems like notes are cut off when the song loops even if there are no note-offs at the beginning of the song). Second, it'd be great if MMF let the user decide which interpolation method to use. Chip music for example usually sounds better with zero order interpolation.

Quote:

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ps: i don't have any musicians, i create my sounds and musics in Fruity Loops Studio", but actually it doesn't support .ogg format, that is why i said it's a "loss of time".. perhaps with their last updates.. or perhaps with the Producer version.. But i don't have theses versions, i have only Standard Fruity Loops.

So. Perhaps you use an another software for creating your musics guys?

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I use Renoise which doesn't export to .ogg either. A lot of music software doesn't even export to mp3, it's normally not the music software's job to export to the format you want, you get a dedicated encoder for that. BonkEnc is one. Just launch, drag & drop, should take 30 seconds or something. Alternatively, get any command line .ogg encoder and create a "send to -> ogg encoder" option for when you right click a file, that way it takes 10. Nothing to change your music program of choice over, nor a reason for CT to support a proprietary audio format.

I feel like FL Studio exports either OGG or WAV...

Quote:

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ps: i don't have any musicians, i create my sounds and musics in Fruity Loops Studio", but actually it doesn't support .ogg format, that is why i said it's a "loss of time".. perhaps with their last updates.. or perhaps with the Producer version.. But i don't have theses versions, i have only Standard Fruity Loops.

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Export your song as WAV. Then load it into Audacity and export it from there as OGG.

You need to master your song in most cases anyways. Or at least to normalize it. So there is nearly always a need to load the exported song into a wave editor to do the last touch. And it better arrives in WAV instead MP3 or OGG, because then your wave editor need to decrypt it. And you will loose quality when you encrypt it again.

You mean compress/decompress or encode/decode, not encrypt/decrypt.

You`re rigth, hehe :)

My version of FL Studio (9.1 beta just released) has .OGG export.

What version are you using?

Basically backstaged sounds like he just needs to do a little more research "reading" into what his tools are actually fully capable of. [laugh]

I think MMF3 needs to focus a lot more on sound. That's the one thing that almost all users have trouble with, because MMF2 has, if not basic, graphics tools, and exemplary programming tools. It just has no support for an audio tool at all.

I have a question but I don't know where I can post it.

What is your question? If it is not relevant here we can help you where it needs to be posted.