What is a reasonable size for a swf application and can you offer any tips on keeping the file size from getting too big? Can I use a swf compression tool on a file compiled with MMF2?
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What is a reasonable size for a swf application and can you offer any tips on keeping the file size from getting too big? Can I use a swf compression tool on a file compiled with MMF2?
In this day and age of high-speed internet, I'd say anything under 500KB is quick. But you get a nifty loading-progressbar if you're bigger than that (which is really easy to do, especially if you're making a game with lots of graphics, sounds and code).
An empty MMF SWF with absolutely nothing in it is 288KB, so that's what you're working with as a base.
As for a compression tool, that's actually a really good question. I don't see why not, but the only way to know for sure it to try it. =)
FlashGameLicense's guidelines say to keep SWFs below 10MB, and I'd definitely say the same - 2-3MB is more normal. I think my largest is the conversion of Treasure Tower at about 7MB, and the majority of that is the music.
Anything more than 7mb's really turns players off and makes them navigate away from the page as they get bored.
If you do have a big game though i'd recommend building a little mini game in to the pre-loader. Keeps players happy :)
I use flash decompiler trilix to optimize images and sound for most flash games if they look like there in need of a prune, I was a bit curious whether or not I could try and trim some of the fat from a clickteam generated file. here are the results
skin and bones chapter 1
original = 5125kb
optimized = 4402kb
Fresh Burger
original = 14251kb
optimized = 14251kb (looks encrypted)
Sometimes I'll get the odd comment on a game 'takes forever to load' and that's on a 4-5mb game so I try and not add anything over 7-8mb unless it's really really good.
How exactly do you make a minigame as a preloader? Using the application preloader on mmf dev, you can't really do anything game-like.
My games are usually (luckily) just bellow the 10mb threshold, but with the new flash mp3 player object, you can save a lot of space :)
I am on a fast connection, so the 17sec mochi preloader always get the entire game anyway, but i should probably be concerned about users on a slower connection.
You'd just use normal code, same as any other game, you'd just load the mfa as a preloader in MMF2 Dev.
How you'd make it so the user doesn't get cut off during the middle of their game would be a different matter, though, and I'm not sure how to do that. If anyone knows, please let me know :P
Here's an interesting take on the optimal filesize:
"Make a game that’s 10 megabytes… Alright, you don’t actually need to make a large game, but you need to make it look like it is. Make the game take 10-30 seconds to load regardless of whether your game is 10 Megabytes or 10 Kilobytes. Forcing a load gives the player a chance to observe the ad and click on it. Fast computer can load games that are under 2 megabytes before the CPMStar ad even displays, this is of course, would be otherwise lost revenue for you. Players will have no way of knowing the game isn’t actually loading so it won’t make any difference to them as long as you don’t go overboard."
(Personally I think this guy is a real Flash rat and I'm not advocating this approach, I just find it realistic.)
That is really harsh and not at all gamer-friendly way to look at this topic. :D
I mean, the goal for each game maker would need to be to create something that has high replay value, addictive game play that encourages replay again and again. And then implement ads with suitable frequency to increase the number of ad impressions and revenue while not irritating the user too much. To make "fake" >10 Mb games just to show ads for longer time is something that would seriously harm the whole flash game industry if everyone would do it.
I wonder if this has been going on already? This is indeed harsh MJK.
Marv
If we're trying to monetise games with ads, it's impossible to do so effectively until the game is 5mb in size (that's on the safer side). So designing a game with enough assets and music as to warrant that file-size is completely fine.
Padding out the .swf with bogus megabytes just to force an ad, on the other hand, is really not okay.
You find some tips on this blog (kaitol.com) which should be considered carefully - just look at the "How to hire an artist"-posting, which has been commented by the author later on, because it was easy interpreted wrong and resulted in flames.
A 10MB file is more likely to be rejected by Flash portals. It's complete nonsense when using Mochiads, since they already force a delay while the preloader ad is shown. So, even if the massive file size can work as described, you really have to think twice under which specific circumstances this makes sense.
It can hardly be interpreted wrongly, the guy is very articulate and for some reason talks openly about his business practices. In the case of the famous "How to hire an artist" article it's a plain "Grab some kids from internet and just to cover myself I'll pay them some pittance because this will make it fine" for anybody who can read.
In any case if anybody here thinks the whole thing is somewhat misunderstood or pulled out of the context or something please go and check his figures for his Flash games (which are doing better than, I guess, 95 % of Flash games from members of this forum combined) which are posted on the same blog - it can all be seen from numbers.
I haven't checked, but it'd be interesting to know how big his games are :-)
Hey, you're the one who proves it CAN be interpreted wrongly ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by RayMarble
The 10 MB thing is related to CPMstar ads. At the moment we can't use this service. Use this tip for a game containing Mochiads and your game may not be approved, because Mochi has a 10 MB limit. And the Mochi preloader already ensures the ad can be viewed for 15 seconds.
So, a 10 MB game will not have a guaranteed positive effect. You need to know what you're doing, simply stuffing useless data into a file just isn't a general solution :)
Same about the artists, most successful games do not contain gfx of underpaid kids, so there are certainly different approaches in hiring an artist (of course, this is not on topic, so I won't argue about this anymore).
Hmm. Once I read it over again, I saw that the author of that article never actually advocated padding out a game - he just chose an extraordinarily idiotic way to phrase the idea that you should get adverts to hang around for a while at the start of the game (Mochi does this to the letter, trying to act like it's loading while it's showing the advert).
I saw the "How to hire an artist" one - that one seemed pretty clear in that you wouldn't want to be hired by him, but I really don't want to go back and wade through a ton of comments to find him trying to justify it.
Also, we can use CPMStar adverts!
@JoKa I see your point and it's true that currently CPMStar can't be used with the swf exporter (Edit: seems we can after all), however I mentioned it anyway because some recent posts on the forum made me think CPMStar will be an eventual option in the future (I might have interpreted it wrongly) so I quoted it anyway.
Hiring an artist is also an interesting topic (especially considering this guy's games can be considered "successful") but as you say has nothing to do with the topic on hand.
You mean with the upcoming Build 250? Or did I miss something?Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidN
There's a CPMStar extension by Looki, which he made (lightning-fast, I should mention) when I said I had the chance to get a game sponsored. It wasn't posted publically because CPMStar's API is only meant to be available to people who already have accounts there... Perhaps I should do a better job making this widely known. You can message me if you'd like me to send it on.
Ok, thanks, there seem to be non-disclosure rules like in case of Steam for downloadables. If I'm right you first need a sponsor to get access to CPMStar anyway?
That's right - I had my own account there set up through my sponsor at FlashGameLicense.
Perhaps private API extensions should still be listed on the wiki, but with contact info for getting it instead of a download link?
Just an idea.