Without apple developper account

Hi.

I'm very interested by this ios export module. In a first time, I need this runtime to make some personal apps. Is there a way to generate an app file without apple dev account (cause I really don't need to share that kind of apps with anyone).
I don't know if it's ok to talk about jailbreak, but I was thinking it could be possible to generate an app file and install it directly by ssh ...?

Be sure I'll be sorry if it's forbidden to talk about it, but I have to know before taking a decision to buy this module ;)

Thx

I'm fairly sure you need a developer certificate installed on your mac to be able to compile and run apps on a device. You can run them with a certificate on the simulator. You can buy xCode as a non-developer ($4.99 or something on the Mac App Store).

About the jailbreaking side of things (it's apparently legal to jailbreak your phone in the US), again no idea, but all that would really do is remove the need to use a developer profile on your iPhone to run the app.

You can always ask other devs for compiling it for you.

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Originally Posted by Fanotherpg

You can always ask other devs for compiling it for you.

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Except, I don't think you can do that if you plan on uploading the apps to the apple store for yourself, because it's somehow linked to the machine that compiled the code and the account that belongs to that machine. *I think*

He can compile it publish and send you a gift app. Or anything like that.

It's possible to develop for a jailbroken device without the developer account. I don't know if I should post the link or not (that I found with a quick Google search).

But it looks so much like a pain in the ***, I'd rather just pay the $99. From what I saw you have to go into one of Xcode's core files and just switch one string from sign to don't sign.

I guess after going through it a few times, it doesn't look like it's that much of a pain, only problem I see is you have to do it every time you want to deploy it onto the device.

I'd still rather pay the $99 and do it the right way.

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Originally Posted by Fanotherpg

He can compile it publish and send you a gift app. Or anything like that.

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Just to clarify this point...The original creator would still need to purchase the iOS exporter... you wouldn't just be able to send your creations to someone else to do all the compiling...We wouldnt want people creating their own little business compiling games for other people who don't own the iPhone exporter to be honest... Of course if you don't own an Apple computer and buy the convertor and have someone else who own's the convertor who has an apple and will do the compilation for you, then thats not a problem.

I don't know whether or not this is any help, but I create iOS apps for my own jailbroken iDevices without a developer account using Flash Professional.

You need to jailbreak your iDevice and install a p12 certificate.

I imagine that the same kind of certificate would be required on a Mac, but I am not sure.

Thanks all for your answers.
As I already said, in a first time, my apps won't be in a commercial way, but only for my personal use.
I don't really want pay $99 for an developer account only for it so.
May the developer from clickteam give me their feeling about my question please?

Thx :)

Hi, I'm not from clickteam, but to sumarise your potential options at the very least you will need to buy the iOS module for MMF so you can make your games/apps.

Now to get onto your device, you will have to find a willing partner who will compile the xcode project you create with MMF if you don't want to invest in that side of things.

The legit and easiest route would be to get this put on the app store as a free app and you could download it. It would be registered through your parnters Apple account and it would be publically available. If others downloaded it there may be a question of support, and ofcourse you may not wish for others to have this app.

Another option - It is possible to share a profile in some way (for testing) so that you can test on other devices. I have done this with two iTouch devices but in my case I had to connect both up to my mac to install it. I don't know if it is possible to do this remotely or from a Windows PC.

As others have said, yes there may be a way via a Jailbroken device but I'm afraid that is not something for this forum.

That leaves just one other legit option. You buy a mac (you could try ebay or the like if you want to save some cash) and pay $99 to become a developer and build an app yourself, install it on your device and never submit it to the app store.

Your development provisioning profiles last a few months, so I presume you'd have to refresh that every so often to keep the app running.

Hope that helps, sorry we can't give you an easy answer. It would be great if Clickteam were allowed to export a ready made iOS app and be allowed to install it instead of going through xcode and Apples process, but it's Apples rules if you want to put something on their devices legitimately.

Clickteam only supports the authorized methods put forth by Apple for getting applications onto their devices.

Please don't talk or link to other methods of avoiding Apple's requirements in the forums here.

Hopefully Apple comes up with a program where people can install personal apps on their own devices for free or lower cost then the $99 but for now that's what they require.

Since we are talking about jailbreak...
Is it legal to emulate the Mac in my windows, and use it to register as a developer?

We are not talking about Jailbreaking as we can't allow that.

I don't know about the legality of emulating the MAC on Windows.
Sounds like a topic for some other website.

We can only support doing everything like Apple wants or allows you to do.

I keep reading that the only way to create an iOS app in a manner that is acceptable to Apple is to write (or generate) xCode and compile it on a Mac.

This is, categorically, untrue. For example, it is possible to create an iDevice app purely on Windows using Adobe Flash Professional. Such apps, assuming they meet Apple's quality criteria, can be legitimately published to the Apple app store, from start to finish, with a Windows PC.

Clickteam's requirement to export to xCode and compile on a Mac is a technical requirement, not a legal (or licensing) issue.

This is not a criticism of Clickteam, it's just a fact.

I'm aware of the Flash packager but I believe it is not as black or white as you make out. I don't have enough knowledge of it to comment on how it works to question it however.

As for MMF, it is no different to a lot of other development tools I am aware of in the approach it takes to fulfill the Apple requirements for this type of app.

There's not an official iOS SDK for Windows and it's not due to technical reasons. Clickteam, as other competitors do, must follow the rules in regard to Apples T&C's for submitting an iOS app to the App Store.

It would be very foolish of Clickteam to risk selling an iOS exporter/runtime/module that could be rejected by Apple don't you agree?

I have seen, for example, (without naming names) a BASIC programming language that did originally output objective C and compiled on a PC, ready to sign and submit on a Mac to the App Store but this was rejected and that product settled on the same approach MMF takes to the problem. It's a design decision as far as I know, not a technical decision.

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I'm aware of the Flash packager but I believe it is not as black or white as you make out. I don't have enough knowledge of it to comment on how it works to question it however.

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Sorry to contradict, but it is black and white as I see it; the Flash packager for Windows outputs native iOS apps which are accepted into Apple's App Store (subject to other acceptance requirement).

Apple's only technical requirement now is that apps do not download and execute code on the device. This all happened in September 2010.

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It would be very foolish of Clickteam to risk selling an iOS exporter/runtime/module that could be rejected by Apple don't you agree?

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I do agree; Clickteam could not release a runtime module (such as Adobe's Air), but they could release a development tool that output native iOS apps and this would not be in breach of the T&Cs.

I want to be clear that I am not criticising Clickteam or berating any of their products; I am a great fan of Clickteam and support their products.

I also understand that creating a development tool which could output native iOS binary packages would be a major technical feat. Adobe is a massive corporation which 'owns' the Flash technology and they have only recently achieved this (and there are still some performance issues).

I think that Clickteam are amazing to have produced the iOS exporter for MMF and do not wish to denigrate it in any way.

So what has your experience been creating an app with flash/flex and getting on the app store without touching a mac?

I sill maintain it is not as black and white as you make out otherwise everyone would be doing it. It is not a technical reason, Gernot who develops GLB originally outputed an iOS executable directly from windows with a c compiler (glb converts to c) but apple didn't allow it and the fear was it would be blacklisted, this was almost 2 years ago I think. He has settled on the same approch as clickteam, and that has worked well for him.

Other aspects that make it not as black and white is from my experience it is tricky developing an app without testing often on a device directly. Speed, compatibility, performance and unique controls such as multiple touch, tilt etc would be a right pain to do. You're going to need a mac to get it onto your iphone legitimately are you not?

If you've found a better way of doing it then great. You have to accept that at this time, clickteam like others, have to follow the rules set out by apple to guarantee apps generated with it are acceptable to them. Apple can change their mind at any time, and that's a risk you have to take, but hopefully thats minimal while clickteam obeys the rules.

It's too late for clickteam to change the way this works now, but if they are allowed to, and if it makes sense to do it, I'm sure they will in the future.

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So what has your experience been creating an app with flash/flex and getting on the app store without touching a mac?

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It's a pain to create the certificate and provisioning profile, but it's only a one-off task.

There's a fantastic step-by-step video by Lee Brimelow which takes you through the process of creating a certificate and mobile provisioning profile. It also shows you how to create an app in Flash Professional and get it onto your iOS device:

http://www.gotoandlearn.com/play.php?id=133

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You're going to need a mac to get it onto your iphone legitimately are you not?

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No, absolutely not; you can compile a native iOS app on a Windows PC and then drag and drop the application file into iTunes. You then sync it with the iPod and it runs. No Mac is required. This process is shown on the video I have linked to above.

It's all legitimate and plenty of people are doing it. Apple have authorised dozens of apps created in Flash Professional.

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If you've found a better way of doing it then great.

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I haven't 'found' it' it's there and being used by many users of Adobe's Flash Professional software.

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You have to accept that at this time, clickteam like others, have to follow the rules set out by apple to guarantee apps generated with it are acceptable to them.

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Adobe have also followed the rules and allow their users to create iOS binaries!

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It's too late for clickteam to change the way this works now, but if they are allowed to, and if it makes sense to do it, I'm sure they will in the future.

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Again, I am at pains to stress that I am in no way denigrating Clickteam's products; they have done an incredible job and their work is appreciated. If I had a Mac, I'd be buying the exporter now. In fact, I am seriously thinking about buying a Mac specifically because the iOS exporter has been released; that's how great I think Clickteam's products are!

I agree that it would great if the iOS Exporter could output valid binaries in the future and I am sure they will do it if they can. I am convinced that they are "allowed" to do it under Apples T&Cs; if they were not, then Adobe would not be doing it. In fact, Adobe pulled support for their iOS packager when Apple changed the T&Cs to disallow third part development tools and then reinstated it when Apple backed down.

I'm very much looking forward to seeing iOS apps created in MMF2! Good luck to all who are currently developing apps.

I am sure Andos will keep an eye on this issue and if its possible everyone would rather just have MMF compile the file directly.

I think i have to agree with Digitalic. The rules 2 years ago changed on the apple license. Adobe have made an exporter for this kind of stuff and stopped to work on it because of the license but apple removed that part of the license like month agos which now lets adobe in "legal" state with his software.

Offcourse you need a Mac to compile XCODE but there no restriction of compiling it using Mac hardware. You could put OSX in an emulator and compile it there if you wish. But i am not 100% sure about this probably just 99%. :P

interesting to know, it has been such a big issue for so long and if that has changed it can only be a good thing. What's funny is you can make an app with flash, yet apple and adobe are in conflict over flash in the browser!

You'll heve to send some links to your games. And despite the cost, i would recommend getting a mac to do the mmf route,they are nice machines, even better when you have osx and win7 on them running side by side :)

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interesting to know, it has been such a big issue for so long and if that has changed it can only be a good thing.

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There are dozens of articles on the subject, but the article below mentions it in a quote from Adobe's CEO:

www.macstories.net/news/apples-policy-reverse-on-adobe-flash-packager-has-muted-impact/

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What's funny is you can make an app with flash, yet apple and adobe are in conflict over flash in the browser!

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Apple claims it's a performance issue but, of course, if Flash could run in the browser, then no-one would be buying games in the App Store, thus depriving Apple of their main revenue.

Finally got on to a PC with broadband and had a look at that link you posted earlier (I'm away from home this week) and pretty amazing stuff - mainly about the relaxation of the rules. This hopefully opens up new options to Clickteam in the future. I guess you'll have to watch this space.

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We have listened to our developers and taken much of their feedback to heart. Based on their input, today we are making some important changes to our iOS Developer Program license in sections 3.3.1, 3.3.2 and 3.3.9 to relax some restrictions we put in place earlier this year.
In particular, we are relaxing all restrictions on the development tools used to create iOS apps, as long as the resulting apps do not download any code. This should give developers the flexibility they want, while preserving the security we need.

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