Cheapest way to be able to do iOS games without Mac?

I really want to make some iOS games, but I only own a PC and a regular laptop. From what I heard you need to have a Mac and possible also a iOS device to test on to.
I was just wondering what is the best alternative for me? I don't feel that happy about going out and buying a Mac just for this and a iOS device (at least not now).
Is there some other way? I heard you could actually develop the iOS game in mmf without a Mac and you just need the Mac to build it? But how about testing? Is there any iOS simulator out there you can use to test the performance and so on for the game if you don't have access to a iOS device so often?

Building an iOS app without a Mac or iOS device would be extremely complicated. The difference between the MMF2 runtime and on device, even on simulator, really would hinder make any app you make.

The trend I've noticed is to buy a cheap Mac Mini and run Xcode on that.

I lucked out, I run Windows 7 and MMF2 in VMWare on my Mac in a window.

I did come across an online rental service for OSX the other day, you basically pay to remote connect and you have your own virtual mac. Interesting but I have no idea how far you could take it, e.g.: getting software installed and USB connectivity. Other options are the Hackintosh route (build a PC to run OSX) if you have the parts and patience.

The answer to your question is you've got to spend some money if you want to get into building for iOS I'm afraid.

You'll need a Mac, preferably capable of running Lion for future compatibility. Then you WILL need a device, an iTouch might be the cheapest option. You can't realistically test via simulation as it's slow, lacks proper multitouch and accelerometer etc and you won't know for sure how your game really performs. If you are developing for a real device you also need to sign up for an Apple Developer account which is $99 per year and this allows you to release your creations through the App Store too.

So there's some investment, but if you want to do it the rewards of getting your games on the device are magical. You also have as much chance as anyone of making some money back. We've been quite lucky to get started, our first game made enough to pay the costs and set up a Limited company (we are now officially Ovine by Design Limited :)). My first MMF game is going through the last days of testing and will soon be released to the wild so fingers crossed. There's also plenty of success stories on the forums, so if making some money is your goal then go for it, but go in with your eyes open. Got to say MMF is the perfect tool to help you realise your iOS creations :D

Incidentally, many of us here run Windows alongside OSX via VMWare or Parallels (as mentioned above) which allows you to quickly create and build in MMF and get your game running on your iTouch, iPhone and iPad. More costs though.

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Originally Posted by AndyH

I did come across an online rental service for OSX the other day, you basically pay to remote connect and you have your own virtual mac. Interesting but I have no idea how far you could take it, e.g.: getting software installed and USB connectivity. Other options are the Hackintosh route (build a PC to run OSX) if you have the parts and patience.

The answer to your question is you've got to spend some money if you want to get into building for iOS I'm afraid.

You'll need a Mac, preferably capable of running Lion for future compatibility. Then you WILL need a device, an iTouch might be the cheapest option. You can't realistically test via simulation as it's slow, lacks proper multitouch and accelerometer etc and you won't know for sure how your game really performs. If you are developing for a real device you also need to sign up for an Apple Developer account which is $99 per year and this allows you to release your creations through the App Store too.

So there's some investment, but if you want to do it the rewards of getting your games on the device are magical. You also have as much chance as anyone of making some money back. We've been quite lucky to get started, our first game made enough to pay the costs and set up a Limited company (we are now officially Ovine by Design Limited :)). My first MMF game is going through the last days of testing and will soon be released to the wild so fingers crossed. There's also plenty of success stories on the forums, so if making some money is your goal then go for it, but go in with your eyes open. Got to say MMF is the perfect tool to help you realise your iOS creations :D

Incidentally, many of us here run Windows alongside OSX via VMWare or Parallels (as mentioned above) which allows you to quickly create and build in MMF and get your game running on your iTouch, iPhone and iPad. More costs though.

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Yes, I am aware of the price for buying the exporter and the Apple Developer account. But to add a iOS device to that and a Mac computer, and it becomes quite expensive.. :P I guess the iOS device would be kind of fun to have anyway, but I dont see much use of the Mac for more then building the apps, considering I use my PC for everything else.

It certainly does get a bit expensive. Maybe take a look at the virtual mac rental to see if you can do what you need, or find a mac owning buddy who's willing to help, or maybe you'll find another way? Good luck if you decide to have a go at ios development :-)

You could sell your current laptop, get a second hand macbook from ebay that runs Lion. That's what I did. If you need windows on your laptop, you might be able to dual boot or something.

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Originally Posted by AndyH

It certainly does get a bit expensive. Maybe take a look at the virtual mac rental to see if you can do what you need, or find a mac owning buddy who's willing to help, or maybe you'll find another way? Good luck if you decide to have a go at ios development :-)

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You can rent a mac virtually here:

www.macincloud.com

However, I haven't actually done this before, but it's just $20.00 a month!

Problem with this is -- How do you test it on a device if your using a MAC over the internet?
You really can't develop iOS games without an actual device to do your testing on.

I have signed up for the free trial at macincloud.com. It was particularly slow, maybe it was just my connection. But with that slowness and the inability to connect an iDevice, it is just impossible to develop for iOS. To do so you absolutely need a Mac, and of course an iPod/Pad/Phone.

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Originally Posted by colej_uk

You could sell your current laptop, get a second hand macbook from ebay that runs Lion. That's what I did. If you need windows on your laptop, you might be able to dual boot or something.

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Just wanted to say I'm a big fan of Mega City. :)

Man I'm fed up of people asking this question... If you're serious about it, invest in the necessary tools, speculate to accumulate. We all paid for our hardware, people keep showing up asking us how they can get what we have put lots of time and money into, for free, it's getting frustrating.

Your best alternative is to wait for the Android runtime.

+1

Just buy a mac if you want to make games! or else stay away from it and buy the flash exporter or wait for the android exporter.

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Originally Posted by DistantJ

Man I'm fed up of people asking this question... If you're serious about it, invest in the necessary tools, speculate to accumulate. We all paid for our hardware, people keep showing up asking us how they can get what we have put lots of time and money into, for free, it's getting frustrating.

Your best alternative is to wait for the Android runtime.

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What's your problem? I was just asking if there was a cheaper way to get started developing for iOS if you don't currently own all that equipment. Its quite a sum to buy the exporter, licence, mac computer and iOS device all at the same time if you don't already own it. If that MacCloud rental would have been a viable option and if it worked properly it would have been much better for me to use then to go out and buy a Mac computer. Now I know that's a bad option and that actually buying a Mac is the only real option, I can look into that. Its quite frustrating with guys like you who pitch in and provide nothing, if you don't like the thread just stay away from it and it will die faster on its own.

Why should we have to pay for our stuff and you not? It'd be like going to a retail business forum website and saying "How do I start a retail business without having to pay for any stock? I want to cheat and make my money for free" ...asking that to people who have put a tonne of their time and money and hard work into getting their business going "oh please, show me how to do it for nothing and quickly, I shouldn't have to pay", you can't see why they'd find that frustrating, especially when it keeps happening over and over "hey guys I want to run a taxi business but don't want to pay for the license, any ideas?". If you don't think it's worth the investment then don't bother with it.

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Originally Posted by DistantJ

Why should we have to pay for our stuff and you not? It'd be like going to a retail business forum website and saying "How do I start a retail business without having to pay for any stock? I want to cheat and make my money for free" ...asking that to people who have put a tonne of their time and money and hard work into getting their business going "oh please, show me how to do it for nothing and quickly, I shouldn't have to pay", you can't see why they'd find that frustrating, especially when it keeps happening over and over "hey guys I want to run a taxi business but don't want to pay for the license, any ideas?". If you don't think it's worth the investment then don't bother with it.

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So when did I say that "I want to cheat and make my money for free"? And on a side note, if I could get it for cheaper or free and you got to pay for it, why would I care? I was asking if there was some alternative for having to buy a Mac computer, which I don't really have any other use for. When is that counted as cheating and getting stuff for free? If this Macincloud renting service had actually been a good option I would have feelt very stupid if I had gone out and bought a computer before I had tried that.

DistantJ, relax man!! Outcast said...."I was just wondering what is the best alternative for me? I don't feel that happy about going out and buying a Mac just for this and a iOS device (at least not now). Is there some other way?"

You could have chimed in with a little more respect and just said,.no man, unfortunately there is no other way around it.

This forum is here to help one another out,..isn't it? Shouldn't bash someone for just asking an innocent question.

Outcast,.just save a little at a time and purchase one thing at a time when you can. It will work out bro~!

the best option is probably to get a mac mini on the cheap (ebay, craigslist, etc) to start. Its the most affordable way, that's what I did.

Thanks that's some good advice! Maybe I can find a used Mac on some auction site and maybe sign up on some shady phone deal for a iphone.. :P Would rather have an ipad though! But maybe its not good to get latest model of iOS device or you will overestimate the performance you can use? Or is it possible to simulate slower performance on the iOS devices if you get a later model?

You can probably borrow or rent a Mac from someone, check if in your country there's any hackerspace -it has nothing to do with bad hackers or anything- (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hackerspace) and most likely you can find there someone willing to help you. That's what I would do.

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Originally Posted by Outcast

and maybe sign up on some shady phone deal for a iphone.. :P

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You'll pay for it twice. :-)

But it wasn't a "What do I need to get started at the lowest cost" was it, it was literally "How do I do this without the necessary equipment" - sorry but if you saw how often this same topic comes up and then (every time) degenerates into "Apple suck because I need to pay" you'd be fed up of it too, note the agreements from other developers after my post. Like DTownTony said, Mac Mini is the most affordable route. You could grab an iPhone as your next contract phone - iPads and iPhones are very very expensive to buy upfront, even compared to some more powerful Android devices. OR, get an iPod Touch, since it's the exact same device minus the phone functionality (and less memory) and is much more affordable.

Good consideration on overestimating the performance. It's usually best to get the one *before* the most recent (except iPod Touch, grab the 4th gen one if you do for retina display support), as phone contracts upgrade every 2 years so most people won't have one which is 3 generations old, and a lot of people will still need to catch up with the newest device. The exporter is pretty damn good on 4th generation and up, anything before that usually gets slowdown.

Have you considered waiting for the Android runtime or trying to get considered as a beta tester? Other than the runtime itself it requires no upfront cost at all and you can get a good phone for cheaper too. The likes of HTC Desire S are down to £130 or so now, and you can run the stuff on there straight from your PC.

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Originally Posted by DistantJ

But it wasn't a "What do I need to get started at the lowest cost" was it, it was literally "How do I do this without the necessary equipment" - sorry but if you saw how often this same topic comes up and then (every time) degenerates into "Apple suck because I need to pay" you'd be fed up of it too, note the agreements from other developers after my post. Like DTownTony said, Mac Mini is the most affordable route. You could grab an iPhone as your next contract phone - iPads and iPhones are very very expensive to buy upfront, even compared to some more powerful Android devices. OR, get an iPod Touch, since it's the exact same device minus the phone functionality (and less memory) and is much more affordable.

Good consideration on overestimating the performance. It's usually best to get the one *before* the most recent (except iPod Touch, grab the 4th gen one if you do for retina display support), as phone contracts upgrade every 2 years so most people won't have one which is 3 generations old, and a lot of people will still need to catch up with the newest device. The exporter is pretty damn good on 4th generation and up, anything before that usually gets slowdown.

Have you considered waiting for the Android runtime or trying to get considered as a beta tester? Other than the runtime itself it requires no upfront cost at all and you can get a good phone for cheaper too. The likes of HTC Desire S are down to £130 or so now, and you can run the stuff on there straight from your PC.

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Ok now we have got that out of the way : ) Yes maybe an Ipod Touch would be a good alternative. But there are no way to simulate a slower device on a later one? I will buy the Android runtime also in time, probably before the iOS one if it's released soon. I like the idea of releasing cross platform, that's why I want to use the iOS to. But I really don't see Android competing with iOS in regards of the market.. I would love to be a beta tester though, but I heard they had more testers then they needed already.

Well, there are more Android phones out there being used than iPhones, but it's harder to sell because piracy is rife and devices are all so different from each other in spec. But there's less of an upfront cost to recoup at startup - just the cost of your device pretty much.

I already had 2 ipod touches before I bought the iOS exporter but without monthly fees, the best price to start development would be:

A mac mini as long as it was made in the last 2 years and has one of the 2 latest OSX's on it, it can run xcode free from the mac app store, so that's about £350 on ebay to £529 new from apple
iPod touch, a current 8gb touch (same power as iphone 4 but only half the ram) is £150 in the uk.
iOS and MMF2 software, so that is £89 + £89? MMF2dev will cost more if you want the extras.
Apple yearly license for £59

It's much easier buying a mac mini then trying to get your pc running OSX, plus get caught and lose all your effort on the app store being pulled or what ever apple does.

I recently decided to take the plunge and invest in a Mac, managed to find a decent macbook with lion OS for under 400 usd on craigslist (typing on it right now :P) I was previously considering android development but the variety of devices and incompatibility issues is a huge turn off. I wish android would get their stuff together, I actually prefer those phones but development seems like a nightmare... It will be interesting to see what the windows app store will be like, hopefully they take a route that squashes piracy.

osx86, boot-132, vmware... take your pick! Plus your friend's iPhone. I do not endorse any of this so this information is for educational purposes only! :)

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Originally Posted by DistantJ

Well, there are more Android phones out there being used than iPhones, but it's harder to sell because piracy is rife and devices are all so different from each other in spec. But there's less of an upfront cost to recoup at startup - just the cost of your device pretty much.

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Our second game on Android was pirated on the day of release :(

My iOS game AWESOME Land got pirated the day of release too, obviously I wasn't as worried as it went to jailbreakers only...

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Originally Posted by DistantJ

My iOS game AWESOME Land got pirated the day of release too, obviously I wasn't as worried as it went to jailbreakers only...

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Oh. I did not know piracy was such a problem on the mobile, considering the games are so cheap.

My take on piracy: you're never going to avoid it, so take steps to minimize it.

Just to get things really clear. If I understand correctly you can develop a game for iOS on a PC with MMF , but to build the app you need the Mac?
Also is developing for a mobile different then to develop for another platform like Flash when it comes to running the game while you are developing it? For example, even though if I develop a game for Flash I still run it and test it under development in the runtime in MMF. I don't build the app to test how it works in the Flash browser so often, that would be to time consuming. Maybe I do a test once a week at max to see that it runs as it should in the browser, rest of time I am only spending in regular MMF edit and runtime.

So when you develop for iOS is this different? Do you do your testing like usual in MMF runtime after you have done some change in edit time? Or is the method different?

I test in MMF as normal, but you may have to make allowances for multiple touch and accelerometer. However, I also test often on the device, it's really quick and easy to do, especially if you run Windows in a VM on the Mac, you just hit build, guesture swip into xcode and hit run.

Ive got a windows, linux, and a $300 mac mini on my desk. 3 monitors, and I switch between them using synergy. Neat software!

When Im ready to test my game on my iPod, I export the game from MMF over the local network to the mac. I then just drag my cursor over to the mac screen (synergy) and click build. After compiling, the game runs on the iPod over the USB cable.

This is the prime reason you need a mac - testing. It would be feasible to have some kind of remote server to submit MMF games to and have them compile, but you would need a very long USB cable to try them on your iPod!

There may be an alternative however - and this is using AdHoc distribution. This is a method in which apple lets you send compiled apps out to beta testers. Ive never used it, and for all I know this sort of use would be against their terms, but it could work.

Someone would need to setup a mac and a webserver to take uploads of compiled zip files. The server could build it with the distribution certificate for the uploader's device ID. The compiled game could then be emailed back, and installed through iTunes. (But would this work through windows iTunes?)

One limitation however is that you can only add 100 devices to a single developer account. Furthermore, it is unclear to me how to automate XCode, but I imagine there is some way to perform builds from a shell interface....

http://useyourloaf.com/blog/2010/12/...on-builds.html


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Looks like automatic compiling of Xcode projects could be automated with a script. I can see a web-framework wrapping around this quite easily.

http://www.neat.io/posts/2010/10/27/...tribution.html

I use Dropbox, so I build in MMF on my laptop, export application, then open it up on my Mac as soon as Dropbox syncs. I test it on the phone at the end of each day of development, unless it's an accelerometer or heavy multitouch game in which case it's constant.

You can build the project ('iOS Xcode project') first and then save time by just replacing one file in the project files ('iOS application (.cci)') until you finalise it (or upgrade to a newer version of the exporter), then you need to load up the project in Xcode and run it on your device.

I love apple, and yet I hate them. If they built an Xcode for PC they would make so much money and solve such problems as these. But no, they won't.

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Originally Posted by Outcast

Oh. I did not know piracy was such a problem on the mobile, considering the games are so cheap.

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It happens quite a bit on iOS, apple will change stuff when they update the OS but people break it in days, but at least only jailbroken users can play it, normal untouched devices will not run it at all.

In a way it's one of many reasons why free to play is better right now, everyone gets the game for free and some people pay money for stuff.

Thing is, anybody serious about programming, designing etc. will have a Mac, usually both a Mac and a Windows machine. Android's open-ness doesn't do it's market many favours, it's so full of crap now and you just can't trust what you see on there. They're also trying to push the unity and consistency between their products. XCode is also used to program Mac applications, it'd be a tad pointless on Windows for that purpose, and iOS is just an offshoot of OSX.

I don't mind, just means less competition for us.