Printable View
Hi everybody
Does anybody know how to achieve an effect like that: http://vgmaps.com/Atlas/SuperNES/Sup...-Animated).gif
Been trying with the rotation shader and y-scale/2 (start of frame). But somehow I can't get the shader to keep roating at runtime. What will I have to use - "Effect Parameter" or "Effect Image Parameter"?
Or am I totally off the right way?
Hi a way to make this effect is to render it in 3D then "cut" the 3d animation into 2d frames and add it to a sprite.
That would be one way - true. Thank you for you reply.
But that's just too inflexible using it at runtime.
Any other suggestions?
You could just rotate the 2D objects from a center using Cos and Sin movement to get the desired effect.
Or just simply display the entire rotation as an animated frame like with the GIF you show.
@Bogeyman, give a look to the '3D menu Widget' on Simon Czentnar's website: http://www.czentnar.hu/games2.php
I think it's a good starting point to create the effect you're looking for.
Oh, I should've mentioned that I'm looking for a way on how to do the ground rotation of the gif. Not the 2d objects.
If Windows only you can try the Mode7 extension.
Maybe also playing a little with scales and angles could give a nice result... depending on how "professional" it should look.
Which shader are you trying btw?
The 3D-Menu object would do the job with the 2D images "standing" on the rotating ground. But how to do the ground? How can I rotate a shrunken image properly? Mod7ex is just not smooth enough.
The shader I`m using is the "rotation shader" in CF. I`m sure it`ll work with it, but I just can`t get it done.
*warning: ehm... promotional message XD*
Or, if you are not in a hurry
and willing to pay a small fee
you could wait for a tool I'm working on (close to finish...)
that would make something like this a piece of cake:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vveb3wkuch..._test.mp4?dl=0
and much, much more :D
Wow, looks really great. How long does "not in a hurry" mean? ;)
Hey Hey Schro,
That looks cool man! Can't wait to see the whole picture. I don't know how secret your keeping it, maybe waiting till its fully released, but looks like you can create 3d environments?
Great work, Schrodinger!
Schrodinger, is... is that a new 3D object? :o
Is it something else, like maybe something using this?: http://community.clickteam.com/threads/92958-Convex-Quadrilateral-pixel-shader
I can't tell from the video alone.
I guess we'll just have to wait and see...
Thank you very much guys!
You give me enthusiasm to pull out last things
(some line-intercepts math I'm avoiding from about a week... that's a veryveryvery discouraging thing to do!)
Sorry video looks crappy due to my very small experience with screen-recording software,
actual playing experience is much smoother XD
I'm planning doing some much better footage later.
I'm going to open a thread when the thing will be complete and give full details.
Yes, it will allow basic, limited 3D environments/cinematics in Fusion
and obviously games
(Wolfenstein: yes
Doom: almost XD
Mario Kart: yes
Descent: no
Quake: no :( )
Extensionless and super user-friendly.
It's going to have various limitations, and I will go in full detail on that in order to make users fully aware for full consideration.
Close to finish in the sense that I'm trying forcing myself to put a full-stop to this project by the end of this month (and maybe add more features later),
or I fear won't be able to finish it never XD
I'm actually talking about this so that now that the stone is thrown, I can delay no more....
Wow HGF your investigations are correct XD
I started doing this with Werbad's Shader some months ago,
but that had some limitations preventing many very needful things for a (limited) 3D engine....
....then recently appered MuddyMole, that in no time (he must have some sort of magic powers) gave me this killer shader XD
Nice!
By the way, doing a stress-test with the shader, you can have about 1000 objects (test was done with 512 pixel wide and 256 pixel tall objects) and still have it running at 20FPS (as long as you aren't actively creating them, since it lags for a moment whenever you create them as well if you create a lot of them at once), which is at least a half-decent framerate, and for some purposes you may not need objects that large...
Maybe this means we can have PS1-level 3D graphics in CF2.5 games now, with higher texture quality. :D
Also, going to do a version with 128x128 objects now...
EDIT: Just so you know, at 1000FPS, it can run at 90FPS with 1000 128x128 objects. Now testing at raw 60FPS...
EDIT 2: 2000 objects at 50FPS (started with 60, so I guess that means that testing at 1000FPS shows the absolute fastest speed your game could run at accurately, so the rest of my tests will probably be done at that). :o
EDIT 3: 3250 objects at ~30FPS. Screenshot included this time (yes it's kinda a mess, each object has randomly-set coordinates and parameters after all):
Attachment 17065
Sure, this is without edge-smoothing (alpha channels), but previous tests I've done here have shown that they both run at pretty much the same speed.
EDIT 4: I'd just like to note that this computer isn't anything amazing, and is also running background programs.
EDIT 5: Same results with smoothing. Now, these tests aren't being done with scaling, so now maybe I should test it with scaling added into the mix...
Thank you for this useful infos HGF!
I did all of my testing till now at 60FPS,
with this engine I think you won't be able to have more than 300 "faces" at the same time on screen on a mid-range computer
(I refer to "faces" as single "perspectively deformed" images, can be thought as the different sides of a building)
But since it will handle hiding unneeded "faces" (behind "camera", behind other faces, etc.)
and I'm going to add some kinda "fogging" thing to make objects appear-disappear on a customly selected distance,
that could be not a big problem (for simpler games, obviously. No hyperrealistically detailed 3D things!)
i.e. if you're going to make basic 6-faced buildings, that would do for 50 buildings at same time on screen,
if you want more complex buildings (see the multifaced palace on the island... the one with buggy detached-sides XD)
that's going to be less (that's why I was talking of limitations).
So far I create all "faces" at start of frame, and "remove them from processing chain" when needed
instead of create-destroy them, so the "creation lag" shouldn't be a problem.
And, since a new post has been made between the last update I made and this one, I'll report this in a new post:
With scaling added to the mix, it's reduced to about 2750 objects before it starts reaching 30FPS (and occasionally dropping below it, though with a few less objects it doesn't do that either). Note that it is using "max quality" scaling, and has alpha channels for smoothing, so it may work better with max performance scaling, alpha-channel-free objects.
EDIT: 2850 without smoothing, with lower-quality scaling, and it's also dropping below 30FPS more often than the first test with scaling, so a bit more testing with said test may have given the same result anyways. Not much of a difference.
Well,
the engine must process a lot of things to calculate exact positions/scales/visibility etc. in any given moment.
I've a decent office-desktop computer, but I'd say this is unsuitable for gaming.
I'm curious about how it will perform on accelerated graphic cards... this may give completely different results.
I'm going have more testing about this later,
but aim of the project is simple environments, not full blown 3D.
I won't expect being able to pull out such high numbers as the ones you're testing HGF, sorry!
This is going to be a limited engine for small nice games
...or big games with many different "areas" XD
Yeah, I know that there are going to be lots of calculations slowing everything down, I'm just doing a simple stress-test to see what results I can get without said math, to see what the limits of CF2.5 just running the shader with scaling are.
300 faces sounds like it may be about right, actually, if nothing else because it's safer to underestimate with this sort of thing (and it's possible that you're basing that off of actual tests you've done for all I know), though that's actually quite suitable for some simpler games, which quite frankly is enough as far as I'm concerned.
Also, when you say 300 faces on a mid-range computer, do you mean at 60FPS, 30FPS, or something lower? If you mean 60FPS, then, well, I'm probably going to make something that runs at 30FPS with it so that I can have more polygons/faces than that. XD
Absolutely agree, an thank you for all this testing!
My "mid-range" computer handles decently up to 370 faces (with frame rate dropping from 60 to 40/45)
that's why I'd say 300 should be a realistic limit.
However, key feature of the engine will be its ease of use, more than its "astounding appearence" XD
Just draw your objects "faces" as you would draw directions of an active, add that to the 3d Qualifier, specify its "z" position, and you're done.
Drop your monsters in the "map", give them wichever movement you want, add to their qualifier, and you're done.
Currently supports 2d objects (obviously.. as Doom's monsters or weapon's projectiles) with automatic position/scale/rotation
multiple cameras switchable in runtime,
multiple pre-defined custom movements for camera (first person shooter, fixed cameras, monster-camera...)
and more on....
well, since I'm going a little off topic, I hope I'll be able to open another thread on this soon! :D
Sorry I saw this later.Quote:
Also, when you say 300 faces on a mid-range computer, do you mean at 60FPS, 30FPS, or something lower? If you mean 60FPS, then, well, I'm probably going to make something that runs at 30FPS with it so that I can have more polygons/faces than that.
I did all my testing at 60FPS, I was happy with results so I didn't test lower rates still XD
(also because I've a number of things to complete still...)
I'll make some test on this and update you, if you're interested.
Hi Bogeyman,
you can also make an island in 3D and played with the rotation.. small example with a scene in 3d.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7b1...ature=youtu.be
Yeah, it's getting a bit off-topic I guess. XD
Last thing, then: Will you, at any point in the future, add the option to add 3D rotation to the objects, since that would add only 1 extra thing to it that would still allow it to be easy-to-use? Then again, looking at the video you clearly have a flat 3D plane, so maybe that's already possible to an extent (or maybe you're just using mode 7 for that)...
Also, how do you have objects that don't look directly towards the camera if the z position is the only parameter?
Oh, whatever, maybe I should just wait for the thread...
Though now I'm wondering: Will this be free, or is it going to be released on the ClickStore? I can say right now that I wouldn't complain if it was a ClickStore exclusive, since I'd probably gladly spend money on this sort of thing, but I'm just wondering...
EDIT: ptiseigneur, what object are you using for that, out of curiosity?
No mode7 implied, the "framework" is completely extensionless.Quote:
Last thing, then: Will you, at any point in the future, add the option to add 3D rotation to the objects, since that would add only 1 extra thing to it that would still allow it to be easy-to-use? Then again, looking at the video you clearly have a flat 3D plane, so maybe that's already possible to an extent (or maybe you're just using mode 7 for that)...
(Would be cross-platform... wasn't it for the shader X))
On the objects rotation - depends along which object axis.
Z axis (think of turning around on your feets) *should* be already doable, to some extent.
I've worked out angled buildings, but I must still work on the "updatable" data for 3D objects (moving/rotating 3D objects from their starting position).
At current stage they would rotate around their bottom-left vertex, and not their center.
Center vertex rotation should be doable, however, but I don't know if this will be done, at least on first "incarnation".
Y axis: currently I'd say no :( (think of bending your head left/right)
x axis: (tilt up/down) I'm thinking at implementing it due to the new shader (Werbad's version couldn't). But it could delay a lot. So maybe I'll think on this in the future... main problem would be "clipping" (--> removing part of texture crossing inside and out of viewfield). Doing this on something rotating on 2 axis -at least with current system- would be HELL.
Actually, you have more than one parameter (but I guess Z position would be the most needful)Quote:
Also, how do you have objects that don't look directly towards the camera if the z position is the only parameter?
including object's angle (so that you can make it face any angled direction)
but they are all optional, so I just mentioned the "usual quick-start path" XD
Sorry, I mentioned it earlier but It may have gone unnoticed,Quote:
Though now I'm wondering: Will this be free, or is it going to be released on the ClickStore? I can say right now that I wouldn't complain if it was a ClickStore exclusive, since I'd probably gladly spend money on this sort of thing, but I'm just wondering...
I said "for a small fee" (must think about it, actually...)
I like doing things for free... but I've been working on this much, much more than I initially thought
(...and It's getting more and more features than I was initially thinking of!)
I'm also planning writing down a full-detailed guide, some tutorials and examples, and also willing to give post-sale support XD
So I'll be asking something this time.
Got it, thanks for the info on what rotations are and aren't going to be possible! I forgot that you had already mentioned that it wasn't going to be free, which I don't mind at all by the way. XD
Ehi, this is amazing! ... And we are almost at the end of the month! ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptiseigneur
Hi ptiseigneur
Nice example! How exactly would a achive something like that?
Hi Bogeyman,
After that you create you model 3DS ,the lightning etc.. unwrap the scene,you put in 3d Mesh and fix the texture ID..
but there is work to do before on 3ds with soft..