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Thread: Help! A recent update has messed my project up (?) re Exact button inputs.

  1. #1
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 Developer

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    Exclamation Help! A recent update has messed my project up (?) re Exact button inputs.

    My project (of 5+ years) is messed-up but I only just realised this today - the problem could have been happening since around December 2016.

    My game has "just frame" button inputs for the advanced moves, for example:
    Forward, Forward, Down+Attack (at exact same time)

    There are many of these commands in my code which do not function anymore.

    I tried going back through previous backup files and none of them allow these functions anymore.
    The only file that still works is the build EXE from December 2016, which is on our website at www.okrush.co.uk
    This is why I assume the problem must be a recent update ( it's at 287.9)

    Is there any way I can revert back to a previous Build of fusion - one that allows instant inputs.

    This is really important to us, so if anyone can help it would be much appreciated.
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  2. #2
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 Developer

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    ppic update

    picture didn't show the code properly before ^^
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  3. #3
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 DeveloperAndroid Export ModuleHTML5 Export ModuleSWF Export Module
    happygreenfrog's Avatar
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    Just so you know, pressing two inputs on literally the exact same frame is near-impossible to pull off for most players, so you probably should consider changing it anyways.

    (It's possible that previous versions didn't require the inputs to be on the exact same frame, so it might be a change in behavior that happened at some point, since the old behavior would have technically been a bug.)

    Also, does the bug apply when the only condition for the event is input-related? If you can't re-create the bug in a new MFA file, it's likely that hard-to-notice user error is preventing the event from properly triggering.

    That being said, if you can re-create the bug in a new MFA file, and you do indeed want to require players to press 2 buttons on the same frame, then you could always report the bug here: http://bugbox.clickteam.com

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    Clicker Fusion 2.5 Developer

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    Just-frame or exact-frame inputs are a common feature in fighting games (Tekken's "electric-wind uppercuts", Streetfighter 5's link combos etc) and with practice can be performed consistently.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bexraJGvDfM

    They are a big part of the project.
    No, it doesn't put off players -since all those moves can be performed anyway (but with different hit properties and slower animation speeds)

    These commands are for the more advanced players and I've had very positive feed-back from people who were happy to see this feature in a different genre.
    So, I'm not intending to water-down the game unless there is really no other way forward.

    I will try reporting the bug ..

  5. #5
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 DeveloperHTML5 Export ModuleiOS Export ModuleInstall Creator ProUnicode Add-on
    Fusion 2.5 (Steam)Fusion 2.5 Developer (Steam)Android Export Module (Steam)HTML5 Export Module (Steam)iOS Export Module (Steam)Universal Windows Platform Export Module (Steam)

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    I was about to say the same. Its very common for games to require more than 1 button to be pressed.

    Maybe try replacing it with 2 conditions

    instead of:
    Pressed fire 2, moving left

    try
    Pressed fire 2
    moving l

  6. #6
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 Developer

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    I tried many, many work-arounds. Nothing is getting that functionality back though. I spoke to Yves in the bug report - he said that the previous build had a "mistake" which they corrected; the joystick commands were sending twice and after they fixed that it stopped my project working. So, I'm going to try and revert back to previous build.
    I also think (from testing my old EXE vs the latest MFA's) that the latest update has caused input lag (very slightly)

  7. #7
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 Developer

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    Update: File is working again (reverted back to Build 286.6 - if anyone else has this problem, that's the build you need)

  8. #8
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 DeveloperAndroid Export ModuleHTML5 Export ModuleSWF Export Module
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    FYI, there was indeed a rather problematic double input issue. I should know, I encountered it myself pretty heavily when working on one of my games (404: Past Not Found specifically). As a result, please don't complain too much about the fact that a very obscure feature that maybe one or two or three or so people have ever used for anything serious is broken all of a sudden because of it, since the thing that was broken before was a very highly-used feature that basically needs to be working correctly. (On that note, don't be surprised if players complain about inputs getting doubled for seemingly no reason, since it does indeed happen in older versions of CF2.5.)

    As for your examples of games that use 1-frame two-button-at-the-same-time inputs:

    For the example of Tekken: Okay, you've got me there, but that's a super-powerful special attack that only pro-level players can pull off consistently. Do not build your game around such inputs... keep in mind that Tekken used it for one super-secret super-precise uber-powerful special attack that only a few characters can use. Then again, upon reading your post again, it sounds like maybe that's what you're using it for.

    However, the example of Street Fighter 5? While there are precise combos in Street Fighter 5 despite the existence of input buffering, I've heard the most precise ones have a 3-frame window, not a 1-frame window, which probably means the buttons don't need to be pressed literally the same frame. From the sounds of things, previous Street Fighter games may have actually been able to make a point, since those had frame-precise combos (which as far as I know still don't require 2 buttons to be pressed at once BTW), but the exact example of Street Fighter 5 is very, very poor as best as I can tell... though I'm not a fighting game enthusiast, so I could easily be mistaken. I'm just looking these things up on the internet to try to get a better idea on what sorts of things these sorts of inputs are used for in actual fighting games.

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    Clicker Fusion 2.5 Developer

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    happygreenfrog - Not sure who made you the dictator of perfect game-design, but yes; just frame moves do exist and I've had very positive feed-back from our audience so far and from people talking about the game on youtube and twitter (even though its not finished yet)

    I've had direct messages sent to me saying they are delighted I included the tekken-style just-frame moves (along with regular, lenient versions of those moves).

    This is not an obscure feature. Multiple button pushes at the same time have been around forever in fighting games.

    "Tekken used it for one super-secret super-precise uber-powerful special attack "

    Not true, many characters have multiple just-frame moves and no, its not just professional players that use them.

    You shouldn't comment on something you have little knowledge about, especially as you are advocating the removal of vital feature in Fusion (precise inputs) and as it stands I cannot update my Fusion Developer any further.

    Yves has asked me to make an example mfa, which I will attempt to do.

    Finally - I want to reiterate that it's not just the precise inputs that are messed up. In my view everything (input based) is now slightly more laggy than the previous build.
    This IS a problem for anyone making complex games in fusion... as I'm sure you can appreciate.

  10. #10
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 DeveloperAndroid Export ModuleHTML5 Export ModuleSWF Export Module
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    Hey, let's not resort to name-calling, eh (the whole "dictator of perfect game design" thing, to be clear)? I get that frame moves exist, I guess I just didn't realize how common they actually were. I guess that's a large sub-set of fighting games that I won't be able to play for a long, long time now, though, because Xbox 360 Controllers stink for precise directional inputs in 2D games, and keyboards aren't much more ideal.

    That being said, though, let me clarify something: I wasn't trying to say that the "two buttons at the same time" thing wasn't a useful for CF2.5 to support for the purpose of fighting games when I said that it was a feature nobody was using, and I was not advocating its removal (especially as said feature's "removal" was a side-effect of a bug fix). What I was saying is that almost nobody has ever made a fighting game in Fusion. Not because it's impossible, mind you, but it's very, very hard, and the genre itself is actually still more niche than, say, easier-to-develop games like platformers, so most people don't consider it worth the difficulty. I applaud you for actually trying to do such a difficult task, honestly! Simply put, almost nobody uses that particular feature of CF2.5, because, well, almost nobody actually is making a fighting game with complex inputs in CF2.5, and since that genre (and games implementing elements of said genre) are really the only games that benefit from it, I think you can understand why they would miss something related to that feature.

    As for the general unresponsiveness, I'll admit that I'm not usually the best at noticing things like input lag, but I kind of want to say I might have actually noticed it a bit myself when working on the Space Drone's stage in Adventure of the Star Twins? It's no doubt related to the way they fixed the input doubling bug, and I have the feeling we have a long road ahead before inputs in CF2.5 are truly as precise as we both may want them to be.

    For now, though, I personally don't want to put up with the mess that was the input doubling bug, since it's arguably even worse than unresponsive controls (since it would occasionally cause controls to randomly become really unreliable for the kinds of games I'm making, especially 404: Past Not Found), so I'll stick with newer versions of CF2.5.

    Here's to hoping you can re-create the issue in a new MFA file so we can get this all resolved, eh?

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