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Thread: P3D 2.0 - out now!

  1. #141
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    schrodinger's Avatar
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    Thank you @CapitaineCaverne very nice!
    I think it's a cool trick indeed.


    Darkhog: that's a legit question!

    Short answer would be: very far from full fledged modern 3D engines
    (I guess they can go fine in the order of tens of thousands of triangles "in sight"),
    but I think good enough for moderately-low-poly games, depending on the "genre" (>> how many polys you need to have always visible).

    The actual number of polys is determined by different things:
    mainly the number of objects, render distance and framerate,
    some objects are more intensive than others, moving objects are more intensive than static ones.
    Generally speaking, 1 mesh (quad face or triangle) or 1 primitive (in P3D 2.1 > box, sphere, cylinder) = 1 object.
    At 60 fps on a decent machine, a safe number is about 250 triangles.
    If you can use "primitives", that gets a lot better (1 cube= 12 triangles >>> you can have the equivalent of about 3000 triangles).
    Capping the game at 30 fps can at least double those figures.

    Consider P3D is using a very old shader model (dates back to 2006) and not using vertex shaders (not supported in Fusion).
    Also, due to the fact we can't multipass or directly send a (long enough) list of vertices/primitives to it,
    each object is processed singularly, and P3D has to additionally compute its "2D" bounding box to minimize impact, this easily results in pixels processed multiple times,
    whereas having more freedom, 3D engines can give a single pass to each pixel in the screen and iterate the list of render candidates for that position, thus drawing a single pixel only once.

    That's why I'm thinking Fusion3 could make a huge difference, we already know most of things above will be solved
    (+ improved runtime performance, which is currently another quite relevant bottleneck)
    I think the solution I've come up with for triangles is actually shorter (depending on some factors) than the ubiquitous Moller-Trumbore algorithm,
    and I've made all kind of optimizations I could think of, so I'm pretty curious to see this stuff running with all of the modern tricks available


    Fog: you can choose how much the fog "come close" starting from farther render distance,
    i.e. if you have a render distance of 2000, and fogging depth to 300, it means fog will start at 1700 and things will go completely transparent at 2000

  2. #142
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    Could you make available an exe of a sample game made with p3d 2 (may be one of the examples, it's important that's it is fully 3d one, not one of these 2.5d examples, so I can asses how fast it would run on my machine before buying it? I'm after very low-poly effect like in early games, with very basic terrain (mostly flat, 64 triangles max) and sprites on top of it (think wold3d, doom), so it seems like I don't have to buy FF for now But I want first to asses p3d performance in a compiled exe so I can see if this will be really the best choice or if I should play around with openGL extension instead.

  3. #143
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    Sure, you can download some compiled example here: p3d.lizardking.co
    (there's the "big" zombie city example right on top of the page >> you can click "try it",
    then scroll down to "More informations?", you see three boxes below with three smaller downloadable examples)

    All of those were made with 2.0 version,
    consider 2.1 brings the "shapes" (box, sphere, cylinder..) with much more ease in editing and much improved performances.

    This is a brief test I made while working on the new 2.1 version,
    posted not so many days ago maybe you already checked it:
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yj20c6d3qm...eta_6.exe?dl=0

    I've improved a lot the collisions with "shapes" since this test was made,
    player (and any other solid moving sprite) won't be able to get so close to obstacles
    (and visually merge with them ..)
    this was quite noticeable in the file above when picking external cameras from the drop down menu
    but now is solved.

    Feel free to ask for another quick example if the ones above didn't comply with your idea,
    I'm happy if people is fully aware - and then, in case, satisfied - on what they get

  4. #144
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    I think they'll suffice. Thank you.

    //edit: Are zombies in zombie city actual 3d models? Couldn't really tell. In any case, even on my crappy laptop performance of zombie city is satisfactory (I have a craptop with a celeron and intel "hd" graphics, so it probably runs smooth as butter on an actual computer). And if the zombies are actual 3d models, combined with performance improvements in 2.1 you've mentioned, I could probably cut them out and get more FPS (not to mention the map in my game won't be as detailed, 64 triangles top for the ground and everything else would be a sprite). Yeah, I'll probably buy it.

    By the way, is there a way to set sprite's animation direction (assuming they're actives or a derivative thereof) based on the angle player is looking at them (think Doom's enemy sprites)?

  5. #145
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    Zombies in that example are sprites,
    you were not the only one to be fooled so I should probably write that down somewhere

    But on the other hand, it demonstrates how cool things you can do even with just sprites (saving a ton of polys and effort..)
    plus they were made rather quickly (with Poser) using default walking poses, few directions and a very quick custom "getting hit" sequence
    (say, roughly an hour work in customizing the model, making the getting hit sequence and exporting all animations in all directions)

    Yes P3D automatically picks the correct direction out of the 32 available in a sprite (only among the ones you made of course),
    to make any sprite face the right direction depending on its own orientation and the position of the viewpoint who is looking at him.
    Think of the animation directions as if they were looked from the top, and so UP direction is sprite facing NORTH (back towards you),
    while DOWN direction is facing SOUTH (front towards you), etc. with all the other 30 directions.
    Zombies in that example only use 8 if I remember correclty.
    (btw, the source is available for download in the "repository" from that link above, if you want to check it out, it comes without the engine of course)


    *******

    Reposting here another quick sidescrolling platformer example I posted in another thread,
    for anyone who missed and was curious to check it out:



    This is using the new feature to simplify this 2D to 3D trick available in upcoming update,
    also I've added some "automated platforms" (the green crosshatched ones, not seen in the gif but in file below)
    those are automatically generated from a plain 2D layer,
    basically you can put (and resize W/H) the platform in the 2D layer, as you would do to create a simple 2D platformer,
    and this automatic generation will "enhance" the platform in 3D, with the texture you want, and pushing towards any depth.
    This requires a careful setup at start, but is made once-and-forever.

    You can check out this simple test here, the mfa will be included among new examples:
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4iv5yr15ou...ample.exe?dl=0

    (uses the builtin platform movement, might be a bit sticky but that was not the point of the example)

  6. #146
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    Yeah, that "lizard hero" demo runs smooth as a butter for me and is still more than I will need to use P3D for (more complex map) so I probably will get it. I mean, I need it to have something that basically amounts to "mode 7 with heightmap applied". Also, probably would get it if I'd be making a "regular" mode7 game, since performance of the M7ex extension is crap honestly.

  7. #147
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    Yes I can confirm for mode7 things it works very good and very fast even with huge textures,
    I had posted this test video earlier in this thread, but re-linking as it's pertinent:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2o6yJzNizM

    it was some early testing while making the 2.0 update,
    you see there are 4 1024x1024 Mario Kart tracks in there,
    it keeps the righ pixel-ness of mode7 and runs flawless

  8. #148
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    Nice! As I've said, I'll probably get it in January (have xmas expenses this month, sorry), no need to convince me any further.

    //edit: Anyway, how hard would be to load mode7 map from a Tiled map? There's that nice free extension "Tiled map loader" and I wonder how hard it'd be to load a map into texture. I mean, I could probably export it into a texture, but then I'd have to have larger "collision mask" picture as well and this doesn't make for easy modding.

  9. #149
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    Sorry, just spreading informations... I'm happy talking of the features since adding all of them has been quite a lot of work

    Mmmm, I never used Tiled map loader (though I've tried Tiled a bit in the past)
    I should check how it works exactly to see if a direct integration could be possible.

    To understand better: you need to load single tiles into meshes, or you want the whole map loaded into a single big plane?
    Both cases, it could be possible with some trickery, again, depending on what you need to do exactly,
    and probably not in "realtime", meaning it would require a short preparation time
    (i.e. loading the full map image into a Surface object, splitting appropriate tiles and saving tjem as pngs, loading pngs into P3D actives to make quad meshes)

    If I remember correctly, one of the output format of Tiled is some kind of comma delimited text,
    so I guess there's also the option of parsing the text and loading the appropriate item,
    but I presume the extension makes all this much faster/automatic and you'd like to take advantage of it..?

  10. #150
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    schrodinger ,any news for update ?

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