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Thread: Fusion 2.5 Microstuttering (moved from Fusion 3 status thread)

  1. #21
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    Simon's Avatar
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    I still don't know that I can see it fully - I think there is something there, but my gut tells me it's a consequence of pixel based movements. I added a frame to your mfa Volnaiskra - do you (and others) still see the microstuttering on Frame 2?

    I have used a shader with image offset functionality to simulate sub-pixel movements just as a test - the mfa and shaders are attached (the "Complex-softwares" folder must be copied into the effects folder of your Fusion install path)
    Attached files Attached files

  2. #22
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 DeveloperFusion 2.5+ DLCHTML5 Export ModuleiOS Export ModuleSWF Export ModuleInstall Creator Pro
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    chrilley's Avatar
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    For me the stutter is still noticeable on Frame 2. It scrolls smoothly for the most part but now and then for one second or so the movement gets jittery almost as if it is struggling.

  3. #23
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 Developer

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    ok, that tested my visual prowess to its limit , but YES its still there in frame 2, altho coz u made the movement slower and smoother, its very hard to see as its so minute. probably cud see it better with a magnifying glass lol.

    i cant believe u cant see it in frame 1 simon, its SO clear

  4. #24
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    Hmm. Do you have the debugger open during this test? If so close it because it REALLY bogs down the edrt process a lot. Are you able to see anything on a process monitor app which appears to be spiking when you notice any jumps? Also feel free to up the value from 0.0003 (or whatever I set) to 0.01 or something for extra speed.

  5. #25
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    Tested the frame2, simon. The stutter is still there. I can see it stuttering several times per second, in both frames. Doesn't matter if debugger is off or on.

  6. #26
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    I tried sliding the window off the screen a bit and it became smoother on both frames. Seems like the stutter occurs when render covers more of the screen. doesn't matter if vsync is on or off.

    my guess is the longer render causes something to become out of sync, and it doesn't correctly compensate for it.

  7. #27
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    Hmm. I'm truly struggling to recreate the problem and it seems like something I'd be prone to noticing (I really strongly notice the rainbow effect on DLP projectors for example)

  8. #28
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    here's a video I recorded showing the stutter i'm having.
    https://youtu.be/nGICAi_BYQs
    I also slid the window off the screen to show how it becomes smoother. This helps show how big the difference is and how noticeable it is.
    Step through the video frame by frame to see the difference (press . and , keys while paused). When the window is covering whole screen it takes several frames(and jumps at variable pixel distances), whereas when it is slid off the screen it updates every frame relatively uniformly(although I still get an occasional stutter).

    might be worth testing it on lower end hardware, Simon.

  9. #29
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    I can't spot this kind of things very well but still I sense the issue,
    sometimes more noticeable, sometimes less..

    Anyway, on a more consistent note
    to rule out it's not a sub-pixel rounding,
    why not just moving the object an integer number of pixels x frame?

    And if I got the problem right, the issue is basically caused by "frame display duration":
    how many hundreds of second a frame is displayed, how much different from 1sec/frames time,
    and how much frequent a difference in subsequent display time is.
    If this is correct, I think we could measure it with the microtimer,
    and it's maybe the thing that makes most sense measuring, because more Fusion-related,
    as monitor sensitivity or GPU optimizations are of course strictly hardware related.

    In the example below the counter on top shows the current frame duration,
    all "different" frame durations detected are recorded in the left list below,
    while the right list will count "how many times" that frame duration is displayed,
    first line of the list is the "expected optimal" frame duration at 60 fps:

    microstutter_1.mfa

    Indeed, on my machine, I can see different frame durations, ranging through various spans,
    and the "expected" duration being the most frequent among the others, by far.
    Then, somewhere in the range of 1 time x second, a different frame duration is detected, being higher or lower.
    Might be at this time that microstutter is eye-detectable?

    I don't know if this is a good level of "consistency" across frames or a bad one,
    nor how much we can expect Fusion to isolate itself from other processes running in the machine that could cause some "jump".
    If other softwares really seem to not suffer the issue, perhaps there could be better ways to deal with it,
    since it's perceivable anyway, that's something interesting to investigate on.

  10. #30
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 Developer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prominent View Post
    (press . and , keys while paused)
    i didn't know u cud frame by frame youtube, that's just changed my whole world! thanx man.

    also simon, maybe u shud record frame 1 of volnaisras original mfa running on ur machine & upload it so we can see wat it looks like on yours in comparison, to see if any of us can still see it on your upload.

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