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Thread: Fusion 2.5 Microstuttering (moved from Fusion 3 status thread)

  1. #151
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 DeveloperAndroid Export ModuleSWF Export ModuleXNA Export Module
    Fusion 2.5 (Steam)
    Mathias's Avatar
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    Sorry if I'm barging in, but only had time to read the original post and some of the recent comments

    I've seen the "microstutter" in AVGNA and Freedom Planet when running under the normal Fusion runtime on Windows.
    Both these games have vsync enabled, and this also seems to be the core of the issue.
    I'm pretty sure this is related to
    1) Fusion deciding to frameskip because the blocking vsync call is causing the runtime to think there isn't enough time to render the next frame
    2) Fusion deciding to idle sleep after/before vsync, causing the next frame to miss the vsync deadline
    3) the fact that these games use UFS.
    It's pretty difficult to debug, so I can understand why Yves & friends would have trouble diagnosing it.

    I use a different heuristic when vsync is enabled.
    Initially, we don't sleep between frames at all. However, if the target framerate undershoots/overshoots, we disable vsync and use an FPS limiter.
    Also, when going fullscreen, we update the device to display at the target framerate (usually 60Hz), but we still use the heuristic in case the user has odd graphics settings.

    Whoever is maintaining the Windows runtime could experiment with a heuristic like this, since it's worked well for us!
    Obviously, the device can't be set to use 60Hz with UFS, since it uses a borderless fullscreen mode, but maybe some savvy extension developer can extend UFS with this option

  2. #152
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 DeveloperFusion 2.5+ DLCHTML5 Export ModuleiOS Export ModuleSWF Export ModuleInstall Creator Pro
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    chrilley's Avatar
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    Interesting stuff! I linked your post on the bugtracker issue report, in case Clickteam doesn't see it here.

  3. #153
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 DeveloperFusion 2.5+ DLCiOS Export ModuleInstall Creator Pro
    Julian82's Avatar
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    That's indeed an extremely valuable input, Mathias!

  4. #154
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 Developer
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    J3sseM's Avatar
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    Thanks Mathias, maybe you're onto something!

  5. #155
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 DeveloperFusion 2.5+ DLCAndroid Export ModuleHTML5 Export ModuleiOS Export ModuleUniversal Windows Platform Export ModuleSWF Export Module

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    Thank you Mathias, much appreciated!

  6. #156
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    Thanks Matthias, that's really interesting.

    Are you suggesting ultimate full screen contributes to the problem, or just makes it more difficult to debug only? Just keen to avoid any misinterpretation!

    I've not come to a conclusion on whether to use UFS so that clarification would be really appreciated.

    Thanks!

  7. #157
    Clicker Fusion 2.5Fusion 2.5+ DLC
    casleziro's Avatar
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    @Mathias thanks for the input!

  8. #158
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    As using Ultimate Fullscreen extension means Windowed FS mode this case will likely complicate a good sync as the app has no direct control over the display output and Windows moderates everything. I did a lot of testing on this last year and UF harms the performance both in terms of maximum FR as well as stuttering. Anyway, the micro stuttering issue is clearly there, even on a blank app with real FS plus Vsync enabled. I think this is the basic setup CT should debug first.

  9. #159
    Clicker Install Creator Pro
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    Darkhog's Avatar
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    Yeah, I guess the Mathias' idea about why it's happening and how to solve is correct (at least for the most part). There may be some other timing issues like using WinAPI timers (which aren't very reliable and never were - you better to write your own timing code), but I think the stuff @Mathias suggested is mostly correct.

    More about Windows' timer issues:



    //edit: And would you look at that, it also suggest why VSync is helping some people.

  10. #160
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    happygreenfrog's Avatar
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    Ya know, I'd been considering contributing that video to this thread for a while now, but it seems someone beat me to it.

    ...this thread is about that weird issue where the framerate rapidly alternates between 59 and 60 FPS, right?

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