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Thread: Fusion 2.5 Microstuttering (moved from Fusion 3 status thread)

  1. #111
    Clickteam Clickteam
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    Quote Originally Posted by salamanderpants View Post
    You can be furious, but you ought to do it privately. You are in a public forum again making an unhelpful comment at the end of your post that reflects poorly on Clickteam.
    I made/am making the comment in a public place to make a point. I, we, are tired of rude and abusive posts from users, which we're just supposed to swallow and say nothing about. We get them in the public channels, we get them in private messages, emails and even sometimes phone calls. We get them for doing our job, we get them for supposedly not doing our job, we get them for enforcing company policy and rules, we get them for charging too much, and on and on and on.

    We make ourselves personally available to our user base in a way that few companies do, something which most people appreciate us for. We don't hide behind a communications filter wall and we always try to go that extra mile for our customers. I personally answer customer support queries all hours of the day, often well out of office hours and in my own personal space/time. I even helped a guy out just last weekend in the middle of the night UK time when I saw he had tried to call us, helping him to get Fusion working again so he could complete coursework due in the following morning. We do our utmost to help our userbase and we're proud that we do and that we can.

    We do expect not to have to put up with rude or abusive messages for our trouble.

  2. #112
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 (Steam)

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    Not to intrude on anything, but salamanderpants, I see a lot of similarities between your way of communicating and mine. I think you're being overly analytical regarding everything a person says. You don't have to always find a conclusion or justification for everything a person says- let your mind rest a bit and be less reactive.
    As to Simon, I don't know why you try so hard to seek acknowledgement from others. That's the feeling I get, anyways.
    Me, I've got nothing to do right now except make this pointless post. :P

  3. #113
    Clickteam Clickteam
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    Thanks for your comments. I'm genuinely not trying to seek acknowledgement, just pointing out how fed up we get sometimes when all we do is try our best to help users.

  4. #114
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 DeveloperFusion 2.5+ DLCiOS Export ModuleInstall Creator Pro
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    For the testing setup. Fraps offers a free version with a watermark, pretty sure you can do the benchmarks with this too. You can get it on their website. After installing you can run a frametimes-benchmark, which outputs an excel sheet.



    This sheet can then be dragged into the FRAFS bench viewer, which is an open source freeware project you can get here:
    https://sourceforge.net/projects/frafsbenchview/files/

    It will then calculate and draw the graphs I posted. Pretty straight forward.

  5. #115
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 DeveloperFusion 2.5+ DLCiOS Export ModuleInstall Creator Pro
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    Just recorded an idle frame (no code, no objects, Vsync On, real fullscreen). The idle frametimes are ok, but could still be better, it`s idle in the end. Same results with different idle setups with Vsync off, windowed mode. Seems Fusion gets the real issues when there's some kind of load to do, but it's not a basic idle state problem. Next thing I'll record is probably the sample app from the other posts and check that.


  6. #116
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 DeveloperFusion 2.5+ DLCiOS Export ModuleInstall Creator Pro
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    Well, looking closely and comparing to Axiom Verge which does the job right I would like to withdraw my statement that the idle runtime is ok. I've recoreded the microstutter example from Vol too, which shows about the same frame times as an idle frame. Compared to Axiom Verge (bottom image) which hits the needed 16.7 ms almost every time, Fusion rather seems to oscillate around the 16.7 line without almost ever hitting it. The frame times rather seem to accumulate with a standard deviation plus/minus the desired 16,7 ms. The average numbers per second (FPS) are ok this way, but the per-frame output is not and causes the microstuttering issue.




  7. #117
    Clicker Install Creator Pro
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    We are looking at it, that's why I've set up this thread and asked people to post their findings. Other members of Clickteam have also run tests. It is not however futile for me to keep trying to reproduce the problem as I have probably a far more comprehensive understanding (and other members of CT even more so) of how things work internally in Fusion and the runtime, so I can keep trying to push the issue to discover what specifically is causing it under the hood.

    As yet however I'm still unable to recreate the issue, so no it is not evidently obvious with no effort!
    Have you considered setting up a remote desktop session with someone who experience the issue to try and debug it on their end? Obviously both parties would need to be willing but if some user experiencing it wish to do so, I think it would be the easiest way to do so. I'd volunteer, but I don't experience (or just not notice) the stuttering in examples or actual games and this computer is too weak to run any remote desktop app anyway.

  8. #118
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 MacFusion 2.5 DeveloperAndroid Export ModuleHTML5 Export ModuleiOS Export ModuleSWF Export ModuleXNA Export ModuleUnicode Add-on
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    Phi's Avatar
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    The lag from network latency would make microstutter even harder to spot or isolate.

  9. #119
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 DeveloperFusion 2.5+ DLCiOS Export ModuleInstall Creator Pro
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    I also think we should steer away from this “I have to see/experience it to believe it” thing. We obviously already demonstrated different options to measure and quantify. If someone can present a non-stuttering Fusion baseline (a non stuttering idle frame) on his setup this would raise the question if all of this is actually setup dependent. If not, it IS a Fusion runtime issue.

  10. #120
    Clickteam Clickteam
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    Quote Originally Posted by salamanderpants View Post
    I'm not sure to whom you're comparing your understanding of the internal workings of Fusion to but I have never professed to understand it at all. I only attest that there is video evidence, documentary evidence, and eyewitness testimony for this problem, yet Yves has changed the status of my bug report to "feedback".
    @Salamanderpants there is a pattern here of you not reading/misunderstanding what people are saying, and then attacking them in some way.

    You say "yet Yves has changed the status of my bug report to "feedback" ". You made that comment, complaining he'd done so, 2 days ago. This is the "feedback" Yves gave 12 days ago

    SmartSelectImage_2017-11-26-16-59-25.jpg

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