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Thread: Fusion 2.5 Microstuttering (moved from Fusion 3 status thread)

  1. #191
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 Developer
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    Simon, what makes you think it's only a few in numbers that are having this stuttering?
    I've always had it, would be fun to see someone having no stutter at all. For me, it's obvious. I'm kinda "used" to it, but it's far from ideal.

    I think I've tried this on three different PC's now, and it's stuttering in each of them. It's a while though, so I will need to retest to make sure.

    Maybe those people that have no stutter at all could measure it and post the results here with their system specs?

  2. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    We are looking into this, but in reality it may not be fixed for numerous reasons, not least of all that the affected users are very few in number out of the hundreds of thousands of Fusion users. If it is going to require a large rewrite of the engine, for example, then given that Fusion 3 is imminent this would take priority.
    Thanks Simon! You can be assured that nobody here demands a miracle from you guys (for example rewriting the F2.5 engine), we know you're short on resources right now.

    Anyway, I have to strongly disagree with your point that this issue affects „very few users“ and it also irritates me. If you look at this thread several top level Fusion devs are trying to get this sorted out including Chrilley, J3sseM, Volnaiskra, Schrodinger, SolarB and myself. Also, the thread has nearly 10.000 views now, just saying.

    I‘m not recording and comparing dozens of games and setups cuz this is „fun“ for me in any way and I‘m very short on resources too. I‘m doing it because I‘ve to stand a chance in a very competitive market and I just cannot afford to have an issue like Microstuttering in a scrolling platformer when there are games like Hollow Knight and Iconoclasts available. A significant number of my alpha testers complained about „subtle stutters, although it shows 60FPS“, my publisher's QA guys complain about it too and I desperately try to get this issue off the table.

    Other professional developers judge an engine based on the number and quality of commercial products build with it, so IMO there‘s no better invest for your future as an engine developer than to care about the needs of the top producs made with your engine and listen to your most expirenced customers. Even Mathias is interested in the data collected here to improve his aged Fusion ports, cuz things like this matter a lot if you have to sell your games. Games like Jarvis , Distraint, Spryke and Outbuddies will help a lot to sell Fusion 3 and keep in mind it will take years of development after the F3 release before the first high level products actually made in the new engine hit the market and can proove its quality.

    If I still did this as a hobby like the last 15 years I would not care about Microstuttering at all, but things have changed and I hope you understand what I‘m trying to say here.

  3. #193
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    just to be clear only 200 members have viewed this thread. Just under 98% of the remainder after those users' repeat views are down to various search engine crawlers due to the topic having been in the "Recent Activity" XML feed quite frequently. So, the 10,000 stated is wholly unrepresentative. We understand that some users who are pushing the engine extra hard are experiencing the issue, but, then others doing the same are not. The scale of the problem is limited, so we have to take action on balance with all of this when dealing with it.

  4. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julian82 View Post
    I know this statement... I don’t think he tried to measure it tho, and we know by now the subjective experience is worth nothing here.
    Julian, I can reassure you I have dipped in and out of this conversation several times, here on the forums, in Discord and in the Clickteam Staff chat as well as testing myself. So I would greatly appreciate if you wouldn't insinuate that my response was light-hearted or even a lie towards the fact of how serious CT are taking this.

    Simon and Yves have both looked at this extensively, as I have I, but I'm not the one who calls the shots on this topic plus, again, I reiterate, I still struggle to see it. So in my opinion, it is inconclusive.

  5. #195
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    Just to be clear, the Microstuttering is also in an idle frame, and no complain may just reflect no awareness of the issue, not that it is not there. My publisher's QA guy got an idle frame from me and tested on 10 different machines, it was on every one. I myself tested idle frames on 4 different machines, it was on every one.

    I'm also totally with the suggestion from J3sseM. If you can provide a setup that does not stutter, please record it and post it so we can discuss what may be the important factors.

  6. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny View Post
    Julian, I can reassure you I have dipped in and out of this conversation several times, here on the forums, in Discord and in the Clickteam Staff chat as well as testing myself. So I would greatly appreciate if you wouldn't insinuate that my response was light-hearted or even a lie towards the fact of how serious CT are taking this.

    Simon and Yves have both looked at this extensively, as I have I, but I'm not the one who calls the shots on this topic plus, again, I reiterate, I still struggle to see it. So in my opinion, it is inconclusive.
    Thanks Danny, don't take my comment as an attack in any way. I just honestly thought looking into this from a technical perspective was not your part of the business. Cheers

  7. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julian82 View Post
    Thanks Danny, don't take my comment as an attack in any way. I just honestly thought looking into this from a technical perspective was not your part of the business. Cheers
    No offence taken Julian Never underestimate my role at Clickteam. We are all a big unit when it comes to ensuring the runtime is optimized and smooth and believe me when I say this, Yves is the biggest advocate of making time to tweak the performance of the runtime. Yves likes a challenge and likes to do whatever he can to ensure it's optimum and it's running as smooth as possible.

    Simon has a better handle on this than me as he has been much more proactive with you guys in this thread and he's also an advocate of ensuring the runtime runs as smooth and as fast as possible. It is a big topic here at CT but I can only reiterate what Simon has said thus far.
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  8. #198
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 DeveloperFusion 2.5+ DLCiOS Export ModuleInstall Creator Pro
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny View Post
    No offence taken Julian Never underestimate my role at Clickteam. We are all a big unit when it comes to ensuring the runtime is optimized and smooth and believe me when I say this, Yves is the biggest advocate of making time to tweak the performance of the runtime. Yves likes a challenge and likes to do whatever he can to ensure it's optimum and it's running as smooth as possible.

    Simon has a better handle on this than me as he has been much more proactive with you guys in this thread and he's also an advocate of ensuring the runtime runs as smooth and as fast as possible. It is a big topic here at CT but I can only reiterate what Simon has said thus far.
    Thanks, than there is nothing more to demand at this point As I said, nobody demands miracles, we just wanted a confirmation that (reasonable) effort will be put into this.

  9. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    not least of all that the affected users are very few in number out of the hundreds of thousands of Fusion users.
    just jumping in to disagree with this point

    i think all users are affected by this, but most, either... can't see it, don't care about it, or can see it but don't bother to voice there opinion.

    if the test julian did was done by every fusion user then i'm sure we'd see its a very large percentage of users experiencing it.

    & even if they take no action themselves, wen they release their games, there's a good chance the public will let them know about it, as we all know the internet is not so forgiving lol

    anyways do what u can guys i just hav to jump on any time i see anyone try & state that it's not really a thing

  10. #200
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    With respect, if users can't see it, they're NOT affected by it. Similarly if they don't care, whilst they may see it then it's not an issue for them. If they don't bother to voice their opinion, especially in light of a very prominent thread about the issue, then chances are it's not really a significant issue to them on the whole.

    I'm not saying there isn't an issue there, just that it affects only a tiny fraction of our user base that we know of and as such, we have to weigh up how much priority and resources we dedicate to this.

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