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Thread: Fusion graphics editor is nice, but...

  1. #1
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    Fusion graphics editor is nice, but...

    IMO the palette part should be replaced with a color wheel with addition of rgb/hsv sliders, like in software such as Paint.NET. It would make it much better IMO as I feel the image editor is halfway stuck in the Win3.1 Klik'n'Play past (and there's some hints of AMOS graphics editor in there too which is not surprising considering history of the developers of Klik'n'Play). There is an advanced color selector if you double click the color, but using it is cumbersome compared to how it could be if the palette would be replaced by a color wheel.

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    There are a thousand things that could be better about the graphics editor, which is why I think it's best to just use something else like Photoshop which is a thousand times better.

    The developers could spend 5 years improving the graphics editor and it still would be inferior to dedicated graphics software, so I personally prefer that they just work on other stuff that can't be so easily substituted with third party software.

    Though it might be good for them to spend some time improving the importing functionality of the graphics editor. Auto-importing would be awesome.

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    I agree with @Volnaiskra : instead of spending development time on the built-in graphics editor, time is better spent elsewhere.

    And so many quality free and inexpensive graphics tools exist. To name but a few;

    - Krita - free, excellent digital painting and drawing, quite good pixel tools too. Frame by frame Animation is included.
    - Affinity Photo - nice quality inexpensive Photoshop alternative. No animation, though.
    - Pro Motion NG - IMO the best pixel art app out there. Inexpensive, animation, tile editor.
    - Asesprite - second best pixel art app. Inexpensive. Animation.
    - Graphics Gale - another excellent pixel art app. Free. Animation.
    - InkScape for vector-based game art. Free. No animation.
    - PhotoLine - excellent all-round alternative. I use this in combination with Krita and InkScape. No animation.
    - OpenToonz - excellent high-level animation software. Great for animation, and exports to spritesheets.

    Or have a look at this Pixel Art software list:
    https://lospec.com/pixel-art-software-list

    Having said all this, I do wish Fusion would make it easier to link art assets and have live updates. @Volnaiskra : I am aware you have a nice setup for this now, and I think this part of Fusion is perhaps in need of an update. It would also make it less dependent on its internal graphics editor.

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    I know and own Photoshop, ProMotionNG and other dedicated Graphic Tools...
    BUT
    I am not using it for my pixel games, because it is a slow workflow...
    We developers are mostly bad at Art, left brain right brain thing. It does not excite us to open another graphic software.
    I find myself re-Editing my artwork time after time, and opening Photoshop or any other tools just for a few pixel/color adjustments is a Big time waster and makes people lazy and ends to just compromise their design.
    Some people just need to edit few colors, create some grass, no need to open other softwares. Just Quickly prototype reiterate things. Some are just beginners...
    There is a huge reason why many Game Engines have this built in, and are improving them a lot.

    Let's NOT make Clickteam think that it is OK to compromise this. Our Editor Needs to be Truly Modern! End of Story

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    I do agree, CT shouldn't spend much time improving the graphics editor.. I've always found the palette confusing to manage though. Also, someone once suggested this idea and I myself shot it down but to have a "contiguous" on/off toggle for replacing colours would be a nice quick addition to the graphics editor that I'd personally get value out of.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveC View Post
    I do agree, CT shouldn't spend much time improving the graphics editor.. I've always found the palette confusing to manage though. Also, someone once suggested this idea and I myself shot it down but to have a "contiguous" on/off toggle for replacing colours would be a nice quick addition to the graphics editor that I'd personally get value out of.
    A replace color functionality in the editor would indeed be great. The situation of putting a sprite in game an then realizing colors need a little tweaking to fit in is just too common. It’s a specific need for pixel artists tho, sprites more complex with antialiasing would need hue, saturation and contrast settings anyway, probably not an option for Fusion’s current editor. Besides this I think the editor is fine for what it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wpd View Post
    Let's NOT make Clickteam think that it is OK to compromise this. Our Editor Needs to be Truly Modern! End of Story
    OK, that was the easy part. Now for the harder part: what parts of Fusion you do think CT should compromise?

    You can't get something for nothing, and you know the resources that are available. You've got Yves and a few other guys working on Fusion proper, and that's about it. Fernando and others are busy with android, Anders and his team are on Fusion 3 duty.

    So you've got maybe a few guys at your disposal. Making a "truly modern" graphics editor would require starting from scratch and would likely take those guys away from other work for over a year. Even just making a half-modern half-baked attempt would take them the best part of a year. To put it into perspective, that's roughly how long 2.5+ took. Would it have been a good trade to give up all of the past 12 months' progress in exchange for a half-baked somewhat better graphics editor that half the users would still ignore?

    I think we can all agree that it'd be nice to have a better graphics editor, but personally I don't think the cost would be worth it.

    But maybe that's because I'm one of those devs who's more naturally inclined to graphics than code. But then again, aren't most of us? Otherwise why would we be using a visual syntax-free game engine like Fusion?

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    I'm more of an artist than a programmer, so I need a really powerful graphic editor able to manage hundreds of layers, lots of filters, tools and so on. Fusion wouldn't be able to match my artistic needs even with tons of improvements, so I guess it's not worth for the team to work on it now (there's so many more useful things to do overall).

    That said... Some specific to Fusion graphics editor tools really need an improvement, e.g. the management of alpha channels. I have often more than 20 frames for animations, where I need to copy/paste custom alpha channel images for each frame, and having to click 3 times to activate custom alpha channel (Transparency tool > Alpha channel > Edition > Show) for each frame individually is really hurting my workflow.
    I wonder if there's a shortcut for this? Since you can crop all frames at the same time, maybe there's a shortcut to activate alpha channel edition for all frames too...?

    They could implement an auto hotspot tool, where the hotspot is set automatically to a pixel of a chosen color, for example.
    Or improve the view of a zoomed frame, being able to scroll the picture so you can see the bottom of the picture in the middle of the editor (and not only at the bottom) would be pretty cool too.
    Just small things like this could imo improve the way the editor is combined with other tools.

  9. #9
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    Fusion 3 seems to have (or should have) an upgraded image editor already, better than 2.5 hopefully.
    And we know it is really hard to port an image editor to Fusion2.5, even opensource graphical feats are hard to include in the current editor.
    But Clickteam is already doing good quality of life improvements with 2.5+ , and people are just asking for more. We want to take advantage of this momentum.

    I understand Clickteam is a small team, very busy, all resources are in, we know the drill.
    And then? No other solutions can be made? like hire more, loan or something... This is upgrades/feature request is in no way rush.

    We live by, if it is Not Broken, Dont fix it mentality.... The lazy me couldnt agree more.
    Well, That stops innovation and we all know it. That stops company to be great again.
    Make Clickteam Great Again, not just great for few experienced devs here, but for everyone...
    Not just for the classic people who are ok with the classic looks, but for modern people, younger people who are looking for engines upon engines picking what is right for them.
    That is business, they need to sell more, and capture newer people, and we want Clickteam to succeed.
    Please let them work and improve their product and listen to the community. I dont care if some people think they are too busy or have a small team, there are solutions, developers solve problems not embrace them.
    (of course clickteam already agrees with these, that's why Fusion3, but you know, normal development delays)

    We don't need a Graphic editor to rival photoshop.
    We Need an Editor to Rival or beat GMS2/Contruct/whatever engine's Image Editor.
    People compare, they do product comparisons when they shop. Feature per Feature, and let's be real, Fusion 2.5 is not being highly recommended enough in youtube or in any website. There are reasons why.
    If there is a possibility for redemption and/or Greatness. We need less excuses.

    Sure it is easier said than done, and some features are hold off for Fusion 3 to be the major product, but they are losing possible new users everyday, and that's a Problem for Management, they already have their biz strategy.
    We are just saying our voice here... Maybe if it's ok to improve the skins, darkmode, better image editor, negative scale, etc... address some top Con like it's "Dated" according to every engine analyst who recommends engine on their website.
    The top priority improvements are already done with 2.5+, we're just on a phase of feature request probably through some complains or suggestions...
    And as a Part of the Beta Testers for 2.5+, the developers are Really Looking in to this, and are doing a great job. Almost done aside from polish and bug fixing. Some Request are next to impossible to implement, but it is Seen and duly noted.
    They could work on it on the future if Many People in the forums Request to prioritize it enough. Not just cover for it, and say it's fine coz it works, not working the as best, but it works enough, no need to hear complains/suggestions, Just use other software... No, it deserves to be Improved

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    I don't know. My opinion is that the current image editor is ripe for the scrapheap, and it's preferable to remove it, keep the animation and Fusion specific parts such as hotspots, collision shape editor, etc. for objects, and allow any custom image editor to be used for editing the actual graphics. Then make the import process 'live' be default: make a change to the original asset, and your project updates automatically.

    Popular engines like Unity and Godot don't have built-in image editors either, but excellent sprite editors and graphics asset managment. I think it's a better strategy to focus on an excellent modernized asset workflow in Fusion instead.

    I feel that would bring renewed interest in the engine, rather than wasting development time and effort over a half-baked image editor.

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