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Thread: Fusion graphics editor is nice, but...

  1. #11
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 Mac
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    The Clickteam Blog mentions that the Fusion 3 image editor is tracked for being "something along the lines of which we’d had for years already", as well as better third party support (opening sprites directly in the app you choose rather than F3's editor, according to the blog post). I'm no professional artist but for pixel-based stuff the built-in editor in Fusion 2.5 has served me well enough, and anything more advanced that I need I use GraphicsGale/Affinity Photo/another editor etc

    Clickteam is a pretty small company, and unlike many other game engines the cost of it (+extensions) is a one-off purchase - no licencing fees, no revenue sharing etc. They've also just released their biggest extension yet since the launch of F2.5. Yes, some enhancements like multi-selections etc in the image editor would be nice, but I imagine most of us would rather CT continue working on Fusion 3.0 and enhancements to 2.5/2.5+ than spending time on an image editor that already does the basics, especially when there are many low-cost or free options for image editing that fill more specific needs.

  2. #12
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 (Steam)Fusion 2.5 Developer (Steam)Android Export Module (Steam)HTML5 Export Module (Steam)iOS Export Module (Steam)Universal Windows Platform Export Module (Steam)
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    Ah, good to hear Fusion 3 will allow us to use external image editors. Sounds like a modernized asset workflow to me. Good stuff.

  3. #13
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 (Steam)Fusion 2.5 Developer (Steam)Fusion 2.5+ DLC (Steam)Android Export Module (Steam)HTML5 Export Module (Steam)iOS Export Module (Steam)Universal Windows Platform Export Module (Steam)
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    @wpd : you make good points, and I must admit I agree with most of what you said. People won't compare Fusion to Photoshop, but they'll compare it to Construct, Godot, etc, and Fusion needs to be competitive in this regard, etc. etc. It's all hard to argue with.

    But it doesn't change my conviction that if you're making your graphics in Fusion's editor, you're doing it wrong, whether or not we're talking about the current graphics editor or some hypothetical improved one. Saying "I don't get excited by graphics - I can't be bothered adding another program into my workflow" is no real excuse. There are plenty of powerful free/cheap graphics solutions out there that would speed up your workflow rather than slow it down. If you choose not to use them because pressing Alt-Tab seems like too much work to you, then that's on you, not on Fusion.

    This is a live video of my workflow using Photoshop and Fusion. As you can see in the GIF, it takes mere seconds from when I make a tweak to when I see it in runtime. My workflow is nothing if not efficient. And thanks to the countless benefits of using Photoshop - vectors, non-destructible filters, re-usable library assets, layers, adjustment layers, wacom support, layer styles, etc. etc. etc. - my workflow is way faster, more flexible, and more enjoyable than it ever would be with any graphics editor Fusion could natively supply. You're only as good as your tools. So if you want to be the best you can be, you owe it to yourself to learn to use the best tools.


  4. #14
    Clicker

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    If I am gonna make a cool looking game like Spryke of course I shall not use the built-in one...

    But I am creating a mobile game with cheap good enough graphics and animations using the built-in editor... mostly pixels.
    We do have different use cases... You will not recommend to me Photoshop or something else, because Me and my Artist(beginner) tried lots of software already, it does not fit, works but not fast.
    And The built in editor is really fast and simple in our workflow. My artist just plug and play. It is just dated and lacking few features, but it is nice and fast, ready to deploy, ease of use, and with direct testing...

    Well I can have my artist do it in photoshop it will look a bit better and takes a lot of time. But that's the problem, I have an Artist, some have an Artist... others dont.

    I don't enjoy creating artworks like most programmers here. but too I can create nice artworks because I practiced for years, It's just I'm slow and it stresses me out, Getting a dedicated artist can do it more efficiently.
    How fast my workflow is: I code, my artist create the graphics and animation all within fusion, all tested before submission, if it needs editing, it is easily done...
    Imagine that, my artist handed a perfectly done animation, tested on a demo level, all creative freedom, less chances of error, no more importing hassle for me, easy.
    I don't need to reexport sprite sheets or adjust hotspots/actionpoints one by one because my artist already did that. how fun programming is if I don't do a lot of that tasky stuff.

    Not everyone should do it like your workflow or my workflow.
    You find success and ease in yours, I find success and ease with mine.
    They have the choice of whatever tools or success path they want.
    I believe they should be able to do it all inside one engine if they wish too, if they want to use anything superior for sounds and image then good for them, no one is stopping them.
    It's just for many people the current editor is good and simple enough, but of course it is dated, and super limited by today's standard. Really, today's standard 2019, no new company would copy exactly this design and feature set, it is like iPhone 3g, it was great.

    We are very thankful and a prime supporter for CT, I love the editor, but we had our hard times and simple feature request too... really, the First Post on this thread is about a very simple modern efficient request...
    Don't ever think of stopping a simple standard color picker improvement request because Clickteam is busy or lacked a little resource, never.

  5. #15
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 (Steam)Fusion 2.5 Developer (Steam)Fusion 2.5+ DLC (Steam)Android Export Module (Steam)HTML5 Export Module (Steam)iOS Export Module (Steam)Universal Windows Platform Export Module (Steam)
    Volnaiskra's Avatar
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    Yeah, you're right, CT should have an image editor that works well for people like you and your artist. They'll never have the features to please everybody, but there should be a minimum level of usability that they meet. And as you say, what @Darkhog asks for is very reasonable. And I think they probably will meet these needs with the image editor in F3 (and possibly they can migrate this to some kind of 2.5++).

    Though I think they could achieve similar results by doing as @Rayek suggests and streamlining the importing of graphics. That would give your artist the immediacy they need, and also help photoshop users like me, and gimp users, pixel artists, and everyone else.

  6. #16
    Clicker Fusion 2.5
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    An updated Graphic Editor would be really nice, especially the color wheel mentioned. But, in the end its a game/executable creation software. That needs to be polished first, then anything else after that can follow suit. I get how it would be really nice to have for the most part a single workflow, but we don't code our games in photoshop..

  7. #17
    Clicker

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    I often use fusion's editor to quickly scribble and test ideas, and it's surprisingly useful for that purpose.
    After seeing Volnaiskra's gif, I'm inspired. I assume the method uses photoshop's png export and fusion's load frame function to update the graphics at runtime? It's surprisingly easy to implement(for active objects), but I'm wondering whether it could be automated by adding a manual / automatic refresh graphics function to the stage editor which stores the filepath\filename.
    As is I can already invisage how much easier it's going to make team projects, and it's a fantastic way to update characters that have a set frame count. Drawbacks - It doesn't work with some exporters and you need to do a final manual import before distribution.

    Better import /export integration would be fantastic, including level design import export and native support for animation editors like spriter.

  8. #18
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 (Steam)Fusion 2.5 Developer (Steam)Fusion 2.5+ DLC (Steam)Android Export Module (Steam)HTML5 Export Module (Steam)iOS Export Module (Steam)Universal Windows Platform Export Module (Steam)
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    Yes, you guessed right, of course. On photoshop's end, it uses the generator feature: you add ".png" to a layer group or artboard name, plus another layer with instructions on where to save files, and photoshop continually updates the png files.

    It works wonderfully, but does involve some hassle to set up. I certainly would love a more powerful importing solution

  9. #19
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 DeveloperFusion 2.5+ DLCAndroid Export ModuleiOS Export Module
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    This topic about image editor is popping up regularly and I have the sad feeling that we are not going forward. I agree with most of wpd's arguments so I won't repeat again what was said and what I said before in another similar thread.
    I just want to highlight one more time that Photoshop and others are not dedicated to produce content for games, they are generic. We need to be creative (not only Clickteam) to imagine which specific game engine features can improve graphic content creation and management.
    Per definiton, a game is something dynamic, not static. Game engines have been improved until now with this specific feature in mind but we just forgot because we are so used to it.
    For example, layers in CF2.5 is a dynamic graphical content creation, especially if you are using lighting/shader effects. Shaders are also creating dynamically graphic content. I am sure we do not want to remove them.
    But for some reasons that I still do not understand, we are still blocked in stone age regarding image and animation creation and management. The idea for me is not to copy other professional graphic creation tools but to bring step by step new innovative ideas which are specific to game design.

    There are few examples out there that focus on this idea:
    - Drawing directly while an animation is running in animation editor to give direct feedback
    - Drawing platforms directly in level editor with smooth shapes (not only rectangular)
    - Adapting collision shape in real time depending on your animation playing
    - Drawing tiles in level editor
    - Animation with skeleton

    @Volnaiskra : I am curious to know how you handle animation. Are you also using animation editor? Because I am sure we both know that there are tons of professional animation tools that can do far better than the integrated one.
    I definetely do not understand this argument: "there are a lot of professional tools out there, so it does not make sense to make one"
    If I pushed the argument further, I could ask the same thing: "why to use CF2.5, there are a lot of professional game engines out there with bigger teams that can do better?"
    ...
    Because there are some good reasons: personnaly because it is a lightweight engine and the abstraction level of the event system. This idea also applies to graphic and sound creation/management.

  10. #20
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 (Steam)Fusion 2.5 Developer (Steam)Fusion 2.5+ DLC (Steam)Android Export Module (Steam)HTML5 Export Module (Steam)iOS Export Module (Steam)Universal Windows Platform Export Module (Steam)
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    I use Toon Boom Harmony for animation. It's excellent.


    I definetely do not understand this argument: "there are a lot of professional tools out there, so it does not make sense to make one"
    If I pushed the argument further, I could ask the same thing: "why to use CF2.5, there are a lot of professional game engines out there with bigger teams that can do better?"
    Sorry, but I'm not grasping what point you're making. The question "why to use CF2.5, there are a lot of professional game engines out there with bigger teams that can do better?" is a perfectly valid one. In fact, we'd be fools to not ask it. The answer, for me, is that Clickteam Fusion is the best programming interface on the market, for the sort of creator I am, and the sort of game I want to make. I use Fusion for game programming for the exact same reason I use Photoshop for graphics and Toon Boom Harmony for animation: it's the best tool for who I am, what my skillset is, and what I want to achieve. This seems perfectly rational and straight-forward to me. I'm not sure what the disagreement could be, or if there even is one.

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