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Thread: Copy and paste not copying the transparency of pixels?

  1. #1
    Clicker Fusion 2.5SWF Export Module

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    Unhappy Copy and paste not copying the transparency of pixels?

    I am copying and pasting straight from MMF editor into MMF editor, from frame 2 to 1 in fact.

    I've tried various settings of the little fish icon to no avail. I think whatever broke, MMF doesn't appear to have the controls for it(or I don't understand where the copy and paste setting is).

    When I copy the second frame's pixels and paste it into the first frame, I get white pixels filling in all the transparency of the pasted pixels.

    This is with the Steam version of MMF2.5+, so I assume the latest version. I can attach a screenshot of the process here if needed.

    My settings on both frames for the fish was to set them to "transparency", though I have tried various alternative settings to no better result.

    The image in the first frame was imported, I can attach the imported image as well. It was from a resource bundle I purchased, but supposedly is normal png file(everything else like Unity opens and reads it fine, even gimp or other graphical editors. MMF just starts doing strange things to itself in the sprite editor.)

    Capture1.jpgCapture2.jpg

    board.png

    As you can clearly see, it's just a png meant for a background that I've edited in MMF to make it shorter.

    For the record, the second frame is just the result of making a string in MMF itself, then right click and getting an active object off using the "Make active object" function. I then copied the frame from the new active into the one with the panel to edit them together into a single object.

    So I guess to recreate:

    1. Import the png
    2. Create a string object, set it's font to whatever, and create an "active object" to get a sprite frame out of it.
    3. Copy that sprite frame into the png object as frame 2.
    4. Now copying frame 2's data with the box selection will result in pasting white instead of transparent pixels into frame 1, which makes adding the text and background together much more difficult then it should be.

  2. #2
    Clickteam Clickteam

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    Does the image have an alpha channel? The picture editor totally separates the color layer and the alpha layer, when you select and copy a part of the image in the editor it will copy the color layer, unless you are editing the alpha channel and in this case it copies the alpha channel only.

  3. #3
    Clicker Fusion 2.5SWF Export Module

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    Thanks for the explanation on how the editor works!

    I think what happened is that the imported image has black as transparent, but the MMF created image has white set transparent instead. Even in Transparency Mode the two frames are still remembering their old colors it seems, as bringing one into the other results in phantom pixel data from the transparent part of the images.

    Is there a way to do one of the following:

    1. Copy "What I see" instead of just color data. Basically like how the older editors work, where transparent pixels simply create a hole in the pasted image?
    2. Set the transparent color across all frames the same (maybe to MMF standard color)? I'd even love a "global editor" setting for this, to prevent me from "creating" this situation in the future.

    Some feedback: It's really illogical for copy and paste to not work "visually", even if that is how the graphics are stored "under the hood". The current editor behavior should be an "optional" behavior, with the default acting like the older software did where an invisible pixel simply doesn't come along when being copied.

    Can we get an option that sets the editor to work "like the old one", where tools simply ignore "transparent" pixels when bringing data from one place to another?

    The select tool is the main problem here, as I often try to mix sprites together in MMF (such as a hero and a sword image) and find that I cannot without major cleanup first due to transparent black/white pixels coming along in the transfer.

    It's neat to have the control over the alpha for effects and such, but in practical use I have found 9 times out of 10 that the phantom pixels this creates end up costing me a lot of time/confusion to clean up.

    PS: I noticed this is posted in the old MMF2 area. It's actually about 2.5+, so it should probably be moved there. Sorry.

  4. #4
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 DeveloperFusion 2.5+ DLCiOS Export ModuleInstall Creator Pro
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    I second this 100%. The handling of alpha channels in Fusion is really specific, if not quirky. I cannot think of another editor behaving this way and I also see no advantages in this. And even when removing the alphas and working with transparent colors, the need of matching them across all sprites you want to combine should be made a lot easier. I think the suggestions made here are gold, cuz the animation editor actually is quite nice for what it is, just those points have been bothering me for quite a while now

    Also, I would love to have basic onion skinning. Most dedicated artists create their assets and animations externally anyway, but the often needed fine tuning of hotspots after importing can be a real pain to deal with without overlaying at least the previous and next frame.

  5. #5
    Clicker Fusion 2.5Android Export Module
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    Onion skinning in fusion please!

    @Julian82 , you have my vote on onion skinning as well. And I would add that since the fusion editor is pretty good for pixel art with the exception of this functionality.

  6. #6
    Clickteam Clickteam

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    Onion skinning: move the cursor on the left of the horizontal scroll bar to the left to see the previous image or to the right to see the next image. If you've suggestions to improve it you're welcome.

  7. #7
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 DeveloperFusion 2.5+ DLCiOS Export ModuleInstall Creator Pro
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yves View Post
    Onion skinning: move the cursor on the left of the horizontal scroll bar to the left to see the previous image or to the right to see the next image. If you've suggestions to improve it you're welcome.
    Oh wow! how could I have missed this feature all these years Thanks, Yves! I'm nitpicking here, but one suggestion would be to recognize looped animations for the previous and next frame.

  8. #8
    Clicker Fusion 2.5Android Export Module
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    I got to check this one at first chance.

  9. #9
    Clicker Fusion 2.5SWF Export Module

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    Quote Originally Posted by 300happy View Post
    Is there a way to do one of the following:

    1. Copy "What I see" instead of just color data. Basically like how the older editors work, where transparent pixels simply create a hole in the pasted image?
    2. Set the transparent color across all frames the same (maybe to MMF standard color)? I'd even love a "global editor" setting for this, to prevent me from "creating" this situation in the future.

    Some feedback: It's really illogical for copy and paste to not work "visually", even if that is how the graphics are stored "under the hood". The current editor behavior should be an "optional" behavior, with the default acting like the older software did where an invisible pixel simply doesn't come along when being copied.

    Can we get an option that sets the editor to work "like the old one", where tools simply ignore "transparent" pixels when bringing data from one place to another?

    The select tool is the main problem here, as I often try to mix sprites together in MMF (such as a hero and a sword image) and find that I cannot without major cleanup first due to transparent black/white pixels coming along in the transfer.
    Bumping this, as I finally had time to get back to using fusion today, and lo and behold, the lack of a tool to fix the "copying the transparent color pixels" is still a problem.

    Honestly, even just a mode on the selector to "skip" copying if the "color" of the pixel matches the current frames transparency would fix this issue for me. To be blunt, I don't understand why it even bothers copying the "data" of transparent pixels in the first place.

    Slight ranting below, I'm short on time and trying to keep this as civil as possible.

    As stated above NO OTHER GRAPHICS SOFTWARE I have ever owned even behaves this way. Either give us a proper "selection painting tool" beyond just drawing boxes/wand to cut frames/parts, or make it so the box selections can stop copying the transparent pixels.

    Or hell, give us a tool to convert each frame's "transparency color" to the SAME THING so copying one frame or object image actually comes through properly into the other. MMF clearly knows what color "should" be transparent in each frame since it "preserves" it per frame instead of per animation/image, but the user currently has no access to this information. (For the record, I tried setting the editor's "transparency color" to the one from the imported frame. MMF will use the set color in a new frame, but the old frame insists on bringing in the imported color setting on the older pixels. The only way I found to apply this "fix" was to "paint" the transparency colors myself with the color erase tool, which of course defeats the purpose of having an image to import/using external tools in the first place since I essentially end up drawing the whole object again in fusion.)

    I'm losing all my free time to splicing these images together in MMF. I have an external tool called Spriter that I can use to do the splicing, but having to export/import/test in fusion is not as easy a flow as if fusion's pixel editor just could avoid copying the "invisible pixels" in the first place. Especially as most of my sprites are coming from sprite sheets where the hotspot/action point needs to be setup again each new import. (center is wrong for a platform game character on import, as they have weapon emit points and the hotspot should be on the bottom "feet" of each frame of animation. So reimport in this case means about 10 min of resetting hotspots on frames and then testing for jitter in the animation previews.)

    This is really bothering me, to the point where I've been doing a side by side development with another (less powerful/useful) engine that supports these sprite sheets out of the box. I prefer MMF's frame editor and "coding" to that other software, but because of constantly hitting the transparency issues I get frustrated at trying to create new characters/frames/tilesets in fusion.

    On a more positive note, that onion skinning feature is pretty cool, nice work there! We really could use some more little hints about stuff like that.

  10. #10
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 Developer

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    It won't be what you want to hear, but the simple solution is to just not use the built-in image editor. Honestly, it's complete junk compared to any number of other free image editors (GIMP, Paint.net, Krita, etc) - and rightly so, as Clickteam should be putting all their resources into creating a game engine, not reinventing the wheel by making yet another image editor.

    Get used to creating your spritesheets externally, saving them as .png files (to preserve the alpha channel on import) and formatting them ready for import using "box mode" - read the help file if you don't know what that is (basically it lets you automatically import all your animation frames in a single click, including positioning the hot spot and action points for each individual frame).

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