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Thread: Suggestion: there doesn't have to be 2 different fusions

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    Clicker Fusion 2.5 (Steam)Fusion 2.5+ DLC (Steam)

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    Suggestion: there doesn't have to be 2 different fusions

    Soooooo.... I just spent the entire day trying to figure out a really complicated scoping situation, that was returning a random range of three numbers from a pool.
    Anyway, so turns out it wasn't really that complicated. It was just that I was misinterpreting the results since paragraph 1 of the string object, is.... *drum roll* you guessed it! Indexed as paragraph 0.
    You could blame me for not noticing the pattern sure, but forget about me for a while, and think about all the future users of this program.

    Is it really too intimidating for people who want to "make something without knowing how to code" to have a paragraph list that starts with 0?
    Why do I feel like there are 2 Fusions? One on the screen, and one under the hood. Why does this dichotomy exist?

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    Well I wouldn't say that myself, it's just a matter of 0 or 1 based indexes
    Most stuff in Fusion are 0 based index, in the parts it's 1 based it will usually tell you somewhere
    For example: moving objects to a layer is 1 based index, when you move an object to a layer it says in the expression editor: "Enter the number of the layer, starting at 1"

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    Clicker Fusion 2.5 (Steam)Fusion 2.5+ DLC (Steam)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Linky View Post
    Well I wouldn't say that myself, it's just a matter of 0 or 1 based indexes
    Most stuff in Fusion are 0 based index, in the parts it's 1 based it will usually tell you somewhere
    For example: moving objects to a layer is 1 based index, when you move an object to a layer it says in the expression editor: "Enter the number of the layer, starting at 1"
    My point was couldn't you just change to UI to say paragraph 0 instead of changing anything about the indexing.

  4. #4
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    Actually it do have two faces, one to keep software easy to use, and one to talk with the actual binary world. Indexing is just one of the difference. In the ancient era of computer, everything is slow. And to get items from an array, you need to calculate the offset of elements in memory based on the address of beginning. So index starts from zero can save one add. Although we don't need to be in that small way but the successors followed this design, just like the width of space shuttle parts is depend on the width of railway, and the width of railway is decided by the width of wagon.
    However, this issue actually is because of the lack of document, besides these details hidden in the explanation text, if you didn't follow the update then some new features you will also don't know. And the logic of something is not explicit, like the built-in animation switch, the change of animation & direction, the basics of default movements.
    If you want to do something seriously personally I suggest to implement everything by yourself, pain at start but the feeling that you can control everything instead of wait for staffs to fix is really good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by defisym View Post
    Actually it do have two faces, one to keep software easy to use, and one to talk with the actual binary world. Indexing is just one of the difference. In the ancient era of computer, everything is slow. And to get items from an array, you need to calculate the offset of elements in memory based on the address of beginning. So index starts from zero can save one add. Although we don't need to be in that small way but the successors followed this design, just like the width of space shuttle parts is depend on the width of railway, and the width of railway is decided by the width of wagon.
    However, this issue actually is because of the lack of document, besides these details hidden in the explanation text, if you didn't follow the update then some new features you will also don't know. And the logic of something is not explicit, like the built-in animation switch, the change of animation & direction, the basics of default movements.
    If you want to do something seriously personally I suggest to implement everything by yourself, pain at start but the feeling that you can control everything instead of wait for staffs to fix is really good.
    I have made the entire engine myself. I'm not saying I didn't make a blunder of this specific mess (I had been playing around with other text objects, and saw that I could choose between 0 or 1 based in some of them, so I just assumed this one was 1-based since it started with paragraph 1 written in the UI. I'm just saying why teach the "easy to use"-people the wrong numbers? If it is going to return paragraph 1, when I write 0; why not just call it paragraph 0 in the UI as well? My point was more to the whole program at large, there are many things like this, like the animation frames that are 0 index, but still "frame numbers" are 1-based. Is there a reason for this, other than "people don't like lists starting at 0"? It might sound like I'm complaining because of my story there in the opening, I'm just asking and suggesting that if there is no reason for it; change it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MistaSub View Post
    I have made the entire engine myself. I'm not saying I didn't make a blunder of this specific mess (I had been playing around with other text objects, and saw that I could choose between 0 or 1 based in some of them, so I just assumed this one was 1-based since it started with paragraph 1 written in the UI. I'm just saying why teach the "easy to use"-people the wrong numbers? If it is going to return paragraph 1, when I write 0; why not just call it paragraph 0 in the UI as well? My point was more to the whole program at large, there are many things like this, like the animation frames that are 0 index, but still "frame numbers" are 1-based. Is there a reason for this, other than "people don't like lists starting at 0"? It might sound like I'm complaining because of my story there in the opening, I'm just asking and suggesting that if there is no reason for it; change it.
    Maybe impossible, as changing the base index may break existing projects. A checkbox in properties may work but only Yves knows…

    Hopes that there won’t be such a thing in F3. (Finger crossed)

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    Oh I see, you are saying that the index that the UI uses can't be changed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MistaSub View Post
    Oh I see, you are saying that the index that the UI uses can't be changed?
    I mean theA/C/E part, if it’s 0 based before and be changed to 1 based, then the events using it will be broke.

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    Clickteam Clickteam

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    IIRC the reason for this is that at the origin (25+ years ago...), the publisher asked us for 1-based indexes because they thought it was more logical for non-programmer people. And then as the time passed I guess new features with 0-based indexes were added as they are more logical for development. This can't be changed in 2.x as we can't easily change expressions that aren't constant. In F3 everything will be 0-based.

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    Damn, don't put "F3" keyword in your comments, we are all like dogs in front of a fresh bone when we hear about Fusion 3! xD

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