If i made MICK(CICK2), who would use it?

[Joshtek]

"you just have to code an extension for it (like with fusion manager)"
from what I ware aware, it doesnt use any private exts ?

It uses a private ext to get extension info from the MFX's.

[Sphax]

Yes and I'll release a more powerful extension based on this private ext (which is actually named ClickExt).

But I know MMF2 is great for making applications, it is sometimes better than for create some games... MMF2 has good components and is fast for applications (and slow for some games).

I know MMF2 can do this task very well and this project will prove it for everybody who has a doubt (if somebody works on it).

[vortex2]

Let me explain. MMF 2 is bad for this kind of application because of the need to export to the SDK. MMF 2 has very limited ability to do this sort of task and that is why it is a bad choice. I have the source to a version of CICK and it uses a ton of extensions to accomplish what could be done much easier in C#.

Additionally I want the code to be open source so that it does not need to be rewritten ever again...

If someone is willing to create this app in MMF 2 and it works, then great. If I make it then I am going to use C# as it is much better for applications, and unless you have used C# then you don't really know just how much better it really is.

However this is just my opinion on the matter. I believe in using the right tool for the job, and in my experience C# is a better tool for the job.

[neat_Kliker2]

I do not know anything much about C#, but even SC Studios said it was much better than C++, much less memory leaks, etc. and lets face it, MMF is coded in C++.
Vortex2 knows what hes talking about, doubting him is stupid

[Sylnade]

of course i believe you are right vortex2, my idea is that id'love it to be done, never mind with mmf2 or c# even though that would be nice to prouve mmf2s' capacity to build applications

[vortex2]

Plus I was envisioning making a more professional interface like this:



The property grid does not exist for MMF 2 for instance, neither does the toolbar or the status bar.

[HammerBro]

Many things to say here. First, I'd love to see MICK get developed. I never actually used CICK (back when I used MMF frequently, I didn't feel I had the C++ abilities to develop extensions), but lately I've been dabbling around in the MMF2SDK, and I must say that I find the scope of the project files a little bit daunting. If I look at an individual function, I can tell what's going on for the most part, but trying to keep track of what's going on in the project as a whole is much more than I'm currently used to doing. I think having something like MICK to experiment with and produce a few simple examples with would work wonders for my familiarity with extension development (although really the only extensions I can think of to do right now involve abstract mathematics).

I have the source to a version of CICK and it uses a ton of extensions to accomplish what could be done much easier in C#.

Ah, but C# has a ton of includes, its equivalent of extensions, needed to do anything as well. They're just a bit more convenient in C#, perhaps.

I do not know anything much about C#, but even SC Studios said it was much better than C++, much less memory leaks, etc. and lets face it, MMF is coded in C++.

C# may be more convenient to use, but that does not necessarily mean it is better. There aren't any memory leaks because you lose many of your abilities to manage or manipulate memory. So you get convenience and reassurance at the cost of functionality, much like the tradeoff between MMF and C#/C++. That being said, I imagine C# would do just fine for a project such as this (although I'm not entirely sure what the development of CICK entailed, but I imagine it all boiled down to string and file manipulation), since I can't really forsee any intense memory management and whatnot being needed.

The property grid does not exist for MMF 2 for instance, neither does the toolbar or the status bar.

Ah-ha! Sounds like an idea for an extension But seriously, that's one of the great things about MMF. If something is in high enough demand and currently awkward or impossible, it can always be made simpler/available through extensions. Which is why I'm interested in their development, even though I haven't used even MMF1.5 in a while now and don't have any specific extension ideas.

[Sphax]

You are right Vortex2, C# is probably more convenient for this job than MMF2 but MMF2(Dev) can do this job too.
But well, it's not me who will develop this tool, so it doesn't matter.

Future extensions which must be done for MMF2(dev) :
- toolbar
- status bar
- property grid

[vortex2]

Ah, but C# has a ton of includes, its equivalent of extensions, needed to do anything as well. They're just a bit more convenient in C#, perhaps.

C# doesn't use include statements, but it does use the .NET framework. However more and more applications require the .NET framework anyway so it isn't a big problem. Extensions on the other hand are limited in functionality by the designer of the extension, and they may have bugs that come up as a result of them being untested. The .NET framework is very well tested and so such issues aren't as likely.

C# may be more convenient to use, but that does not necessarily mean it is better. There aren't any memory leaks because you lose many of your abilities to manage or manipulate memory. So you get convenience and reassurance at the cost of functionality, much like the tradeoff between MMF and C#/C++.

Better is a relative term. I don't think C# is better or wose then C++, it depends on the job.

Ah-ha! Sounds like an idea for an extension But seriously, that's one of the great things about MMF. If something is in high enough demand and currently awkward or impossible, it can always be made simpler/available through extensions.

This is very true. However to make these things in MMF 2 for the express purpose of using MMF 2 to make the application over C# would involve much more work and would be like reinventing the wheel to make a wagon..

[jayklik]

FYI, some C# elements can be implemented into MMF2 by use of ActiveX. I will start working on this, then. I will try to combine Andos's and VT2's Wishes, so i will keep you updated.