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Thread: Poinc tutorial ideas

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    Poinc tutorial ideas

    Hey guys, I was thinking of doing a tutorial on how to use Poinc together with the OINC extensions in MMF2.

    What would you like to see?

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    Re: Poinc tutorial ideas

    I swear I was going to do some tutorials. I have various example files around, like a log in/register account management system with sqLite databases, and a grid based movement server, but I never got round to documenting and writing a tutorial with them. Sorry about that, perhaps I'll find some time when the next version of OINC is released.
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    Re: Poinc tutorial ideas

    I've now about 7 days been studying python, and now I'm starting to understand python much more. But here's all what I want to see in poinc tutorial.

    Mostly making a server, that can handle some small chat applications are obvious, but what is needed is MMORPG style of coding.

    -Clients sends data, how to save it to server, or load from server and send to client. Mayby with SQL.
    -Login system
    -Dead reconing
    -Creating custom server from a scratch

    Allthough I must protest about the fact, that there is not coming any OINCserver extension to mmf2. Yes it may run out of power, but still without it OINC, becomes rare to use, and many would use moo instead of oinc. Why? Well who wants to start learning about python, because of oinc. Very few have made online applications with moo, so how oinc is going to be that special?

    The idea of hole mmf is to create games with ease and well if you need to start learning python and then read some scethes how the computer connection goes and you start writing UFO code. How do you thing anyone would do that. Yes I have now started, but I have gotten pretty frusrated already. I have learnt only basics, but that is also too much.


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    Re: Poinc tutorial ideas

    DizzyDoo:
    Post your files up on the wiki, I'm sure some people will find it useful (documentation appreciated though)!

    NeoMonkey:
    Sounds good with some Pythonists on board!
    About your requests:
    Clients sends data, how to save it to server, or load from server and send to client. Mayby with SQL.
    What data are you talking about here? If you mean things like account items, etc., then that should actually be quite easy to accomplish (using SQLAlchemy or something else).
    Login system
    You can accomplish this by looking up the user in your SQL database, and tell the client whether it can enter (and kick/ban if it attempts to anyway).
    Dead rec(k)oning
    Also called client-side prediction, this has nothing to do with the server, really You should find your own way of doing client-side prediction (I will try to cover some of it). For example, adjust accordingly if the clientside predicted movement does not match where the players are currently (fetched from the server).
    Creating custom server from a scratch
    Obviously!

    The reason why we don't really want people to do servers inside of MMF2, is because of the stability. It is *very* easy to crash or lag down a server made in MMF2. I agree with you though, few online games have been made with Moo, and even though many of them uses servers inside MMF2, I'm sure, atleast, that that's not the way to go.

    You're quite an eye opener
    I tried to do the Poinc Plugin Server, but since none really gave me feedback on it, I guess that was not the way.
    Perhaps something MMF-like, that does not require you to code or script things?

    I will start the tutorial(s) soon, by the way.

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    Re: Poinc tutorial ideas

    Okay first I didn't know about sqlAlchemy, just read about it...

    And well I'm trying to make and learn in the way how to make a server, with no sql. So it basicly loads all information from .ini files or something like that. Originally I though that when I wrote the comment, so login type system without sql.

    And definetly I think you should make plugin styled server. This has huge amount of advantages, it is like mmf. You don't need to code, but if you can or want to learn, you can add plugins. This is the way the server should be done!

    At the moment I am losing my mind on with python. Now all the modules and classes can be found on internet. Now I'm not always ready to go into internet, so it would be great to have all poinc modules and classes explained in downloadable help.

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    Re: Poinc tutorial ideas

    The Poinc Plugin Server can be found here, actually

    So, perhaps I should do my tutorials for PPS instead? Sounds like a good idea (or possibly hint at how to use for PPS)!

    EDIT: I've been thinking, and perhaps it's not the best idea. Mostly because it's not easy to include packages for use in plugins.

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    Re: Poinc tutorial ideas

    Somehow your plugin system seems a bit of odd. But as a fact I would do one concept I made with mmf few years ago with html. It was that, when you pressed button you opened dropbox, which has most of the html inside. Now with this way creating server application would make the server making more easier, than just making 200 tutorials of how to.

    For example you press server button, and you choose there enable udp. Now when line loader comes at that point, it will create new line at beginning importing all needed modules and writing the code automatically. And when you save it, it becomes .py, so you can edit it with idle when ever you want.

    Well I'm not sure how hard this is compared to html, but well it worked with it, so mayby it's possible to work that way with python.

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    Re: Poinc tutorial ideas

    Could you tell me in which way you find it odd? Can't really improve it by just telling me, "it's odd"

    I was thinking about something like what you were mentioning, but that restricts the user(code) severely (no SQLAlchemy, anything the casual user would like, etc).

    I guess I will be writing my tutorials for Python and Poinc (and perhaps do a limited tool, aimed at newcomers)

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    Re: Poinc tutorial ideas

    Well first is that I can't write -h, or any options, which is odd. Also the "console" type window should be like you write -h and you get help etc. and you can edit the server stuff within it. This is the way, also graphical interface is always +.

    Now as for the plugin, they have to be easily injected into the application. This can be done by coders, so anyone can use them, for example from downloading from internet and putting into application. Which seems to be done, but the problem is user friendliness. I'm not sure if it should go like this, but when server is open I can't write anything.

    So in conclusion pugin part works, the server itself needs some fixes. Basicly you need to add somekind of scriptings stuff and now we are taking like 'udp on', like that. ATM it looks odd, because it's small and can't do anything. Exept translate some tcp-chat stuff? (udp command won't work :/) Mayby the best example is dark byte's cheat engine. It has scripts, plugins and you don't need to be a master to get basic out of it. Past days when I used it, I just did understand flags and search, but then I studied AA script with it and that was enough. And that is how it should be.

    The tool I meantioned is mayby possible to be created even with mmf. The idea is to make the code simpler by adding it automatically. For example this line "self.ip = self.transport.getHost().host", it's taken from the channel example. It seems to change your ip value into same value as host which is you. But if this would have done within some other application and you press button, add server ip. Then it would print "transport.getHost().host", like in mmf event editor. I hope you get what I mean. That way people learns faster, make code faster and gets server working faster. And why not add any commands of SQLAlchemy too into it.

    Also I think you should write a tutorial about using simple twisted and sql alchemy stuff in server. And mayby for adding somekind of -h styled commands.

    Edit: Finally I understand your both server examples . About 20 times red it over.

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    Re: Poinc tutorial ideas

    I think what NeoMonkey first suggested, for a python-based OINC server would be a great example.

    If it's easy to do with SQLAlchemy, great, the tutorials will be easy for you to make.

    For a server, where there is really no GUI, I think python would be better than MMF, just because it's actually typed out. I did my first MMO server in MMF1.5, but then switched to Jamagic, and that was much easier to deal with. Then recently I did a server in MMF2+Lua, which was fun too, but the Lua extensions are too unstable for a server... which brings me to Python.

    I think making the client in MMF2 and a server in Python+Oinc+SQLAlchemy would be great.

    A chat room, with login and registration (stored via server's SQL access) system would be a wonderful example. Maybe add a boolean to the SQL table of users, stating whether they are Mods or not, and just have the server announce them as what they are when they enter.
    "Mod Jeff Enters Chat!" "Regular User NeoMonkey Enter Chat."

    So: Register, Login, List of Users who are in chat, announcement of new users/ users who left (with their mod status), and the ability for people to actually chat.

    I think that has all the groundwork one would need to build that up into an MMORPG-type game.

    Oh, lastly, add a bigint to the SQL table of users, with their chatLineCount: how many lines of text have they sent. Just as an example of how the server could change data in SQL, in response to a client-sent message.

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