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Thread: MMF3 legacy support - yes or no?

  1. #31
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    Re: MMF3 legacy support - yes or no?

    Yer there is no point building MMF on top of another engine.
    I like Nifflas's idea in his other post where he raised the idea that movements could be seperate so that people can program their own and can share/distribute it around the community.

    And like other people have said before, people can still stick to MMF2 if they don't want to port thier games. MMF3 should be faster and built without backwards compatibility (except for the ability to keep artwork) so that it is as fast and optimized as possible.
    And as long as it has LUA support I am happy

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    Re: MMF3 legacy support - yes or no?

    Yeah, I really don't believe that something being advanced have to contradict with it being beginner friendly. Sometimes all you need is to do as a designer is to think of a problem a bit differently...

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    Re: MMF3 legacy support - yes or no?

    I think it's more likely that the backwards compatibility will be retained in a similar way to the 1.5 -> 2 compatibility (translating the events on load). If it's done right, that shouldn't have an impact on functionality.

    I voted no, though

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    Re: MMF3 legacy support - yes or no?

    Yeah, but then there must still be corresponding events for everything that can be currently done. That != freedom to change things completely.

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    Re: MMF3 legacy support - yes or no?

    I agree with Nifflas.

    The user base for MMF2 is getting more and more knowledgeable with time, and thus the need for more advanced software arises. If a new user wants to get started on the clickteam line, he/she could get The Games Factory 3, which is marketed as a beginner product, as opposed to MMF3, a "pro", "dev" or "power" product.

    Besides, making the new product backwards-compatible would eat up clickteam's time, and that time is better used in designing new features (two action points would be nice, and they can be programmed in what? Four hours?).

    The post with suggestions is full of awesome ideas that cannot be implemented because it would conflict with legacy support.

    Instead we, the more advanced developers, are forced to use ugly hacks (like the ramdisk thread) or migrate to other software (For instance: no practical 3D capabilities. And don't start with OpenGL, we all know we can't design a game with that extension).

    It's time to grow up.

  6. #36
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    Re: MMF3 legacy support - yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fimbul
    (For instance: no practical 3D capabilities. And don't start with OpenGL, we all know we can't design a game with that extension).
    I disagree. I don't think the OpenGL extension was made specifically for newbies to create 3D games, but an experienced user could most definitely make something extraordinary or a 3D game with the OpenGL extension. SEELE made some unbelievable stuff a little while back.

    stephen1980
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    Nivram's Examples -Need extensions? Send me a PM.-


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    Re: MMF3 legacy support - yes or no?

    I don't mean to demerit OpenGL, it's a great extension, but you can't expect people to use it to make any advanced games, it just doesn't have that kind of power - primarily due to the fact that it is a plugin.

    If you were to design a game using the OpenGL extension, you'd have to use MMF2 in such a complex and unintended way, it would probably make your game unplayable. For instance, you'd have to do physics by hand, LOS calculations by hand, pretty much all animations by hand as well... you'd be better off using another program.

    The OpenGL extension, as is, can be successfully used to render scenery, showcase impressive models in a presentation, or display 3D blobs in a database style software and make really simple "games" (like maze games, for instance), etc.

    Yet if we want to see a full blown 3D game made in MMF3, we'll need native support for a lot of things, including 3D collision detection, Z axis, 3D active objects and a lot more... and that calls for a redesign that breaks backwards compatibility.

    I don't want to derail the topic here, and it certainly is not the extension author's or clickteam's fault especially considering the efforts they are making in that direction (with HWA, for instance), but a 3D extension will never be up to par with what a MMF3D could be.

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    Re: MMF3 legacy support - yes or no?

    The most efficient way would be using xLua and luagl + OpenGL.
    Someone, I don't remember who (sorry :S) showed me a really impressive particle system he created with it!
    The problem is just that you would need to much actions and loops to create proper games. Especially loops can slow down the application a lot. It's fine for small mini games, but don't expect Eve online or something.
    Anyway, yeah, let's get back to topic.

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    Re: MMF3 legacy support - yes or no?

    definitely want a rewrite, especially with features such as HWA kept in mind.

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    Re: MMF3 legacy support - yes or no?

    As people have been saying ideas they want for MMF3 heres some of the stuff i want most -

    Firstly workflow and layout, MMF works well now and i like the way it works so it should keep the same workflow only extend on it. A updated version should have a nice simple modern GUI with customization options and editing to allow you to setup the app how you like it. The layout nicely done with nice features to make workflow fast and easy and save time.

    SDKs to allow for -

    Plugins - Extend the GUI features so you could make your own advanced features like new menus, code editors and extra editing options like pattern placements for objects in the frame editors etc or whatever other cool ideas could be done.

    Objects/Extensions - Same as now but maybe allow for deeper control over things and more advanced GUIs and editing etc. For the listings it would be nice to have good organization also. It would be nice to have a downloading/updating system built within MMF also to get the latest things.

    Movements - Allow to make new movement types or have something like Nifflas suggested. Make some of the main ones open so they can get mods or be edited if they were buggy.

    Input/Export Formats - Allow to make new input formats like image, audio and stuff like zipped audio/images to save filesize. This would save people from making whole new extensions to support some file types.

    These would all just be like objects/extensions are now so all optional downloads and you just place them in a folder and then have new options/features available in the app.

    Another thing would be enhanced widget making features, these have already show they are powerful with some of the cool stuff people have been making. It could even be extended to the point where it's like making objects within the app.

    Presets as these are a really useful so where ever they could apply they should be added as they save loads of time. They would work well on things like values for movements so you could just select a preset from a dropdown and be ready to go.

    Enhanced editing and events with things like ways to save/load events so they can be posted on the forums or made into a snippets library to save time.

    HWA and all the coolest stuff from the current version should be added to MMF3 also. Some of the extensions should be built in as standard like the layer object etc. The graphics and expressions editors could be enhanced also. Being able to stack a few HWA effects together on a single thing would be very useful also

    Then the other stuff like coding and 3d, if all of this was added it would be the best/fastest programming tool available and also probably for 2d game or 3d also if tools were added.

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