User Tag List

Page 5 of 14 FirstFirst ... 3 4 5 6 7 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 138

Thread: Clickteam please improve PERFORMANCE of MMF2 games ASAP

  1. #41
    Clicker Multimedia Fusion 2 Developer
    Blue66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    133
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Looki View Post
    This is all very complicated and MMF was released in 2006, where parallel processing wasn't that big yet.
    Well, when even my cell phone has a dual core nowadays, I would say this is kind of a big deal now. Back in 2006 there wasn't an iPhone either, but now MMF2 supports it, so apparently Clickteam do spend a lot of time to change MMF2 to go with the times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Looki View Post
    multi-threading is completely unnecessary in most program structures. It comes in handy when you're working with huge chunks of data or want to generate something in the background. MMF's performance issues have nothing to do with that.
    OK, so you're saying that MMF2 just ignores 3/4 of my CPU power, but it has nothing to do with the lack of performance? Fine. So, where does the problem come from instead? And please let's not talk about MMF3, because this problem concerns us NOW and I have no idea when MMF3 is going to be released. When MMF2 doesn't hold up with their competition today in terms of 2D gaming performance, there is a major problem and that needs to be addressed in my opinion.

    As you can see many people here have to go extra miles and find all sorts of crazy work-arounds to make their games run decent on modern hardware. For me this takes a lot of time, limits my creative freedom and is very frustrating! I mean what's the point to work with MMF2 if my final product can't compare in terms of features with other games on the market anymore, because MMF2 doesn't use modern hardware potential (or whatever else the performance problem is)? If Clickteam can find ways to make MMF2 games work on Flash, iPhones, XBOX and other things, why should it be impossible for them to optimize MMF2 to have more performance and give their customers more horse-power to work with?

  2. #42
    Clicker Fusion 2.5Android Export ModuleSWF Export Module

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    104
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    All this arguing about bottles necks aside I just want a gosh darn more intuitive user interface and more documentation. I want things to do what they say on the tin and to do that easily. Obviously this is relative to your previous experiences but I feel that yeah we need this.

    I really hope MMF3 is announced this year. Seriously. Please. A vid or something, a screenshot a blurb about how it works. Please.

    Oh but seriously if you all are fans of Clickteam then please complain about things you don't like. This is not a charity. I have and I'm sure you all have spent a lot of money on clickteam products. And as far as I am concerned there is not enough complaining and critiquing about this software currently. I know the devs are your friends and they are very helpful but this does not put them outside the realm of critique.

    Things will not get done unless there is enough people who want the things that they want done to be done. SPEAK UP!

  3. #43
    Clickteam Clickteam
    Danny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    3,006
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    I find this thread spiraling out of control, I think it's finally stepped into the realm of flaming.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue66
    As you can see many people here have to go extra miles and find all sorts of crazy work-arounds to make their games run decent on modern hardware. For me this takes a lot of time, limits my creative freedom and is very frustrating! I mean what's the point to work with MMF2 if my final product can't compare in terms of features with other games on the market anymore, because MMF2 doesn't use modern hardware potential (or whatever else the performance problem is)? If Clickteam can find ways to make MMF2 games work on Flash, iPhones, XBOX and other things, why should it be impossible for them to optimize MMF2 to have more performance and give their customers more horse-power to work with?
    The problem here is, as described on virtually all 4 other pages, what is the problem? You even cited that you and Simon have found 2 issues, one was your ineffective use of groups (so, coding issue) and the second is an 'apparent' MMF2 issue that nobody else seems to have been made aware of and if you was made aware of this issue from Simon you should have notified us with an update, not continued a never-ending debate.

    MMF2 is more than capable to produce decent gaming engines. So what if a few things need 'workarounds', without mentioning other engines here you will find that other engines are also working on old frameworks that need 'workarounds'. There are plenty of these 'workarounds' listed here, in the file archive, on TDC and the repo. There is no excuse to not get something done today, if there is no resource on it then post to the forums and someone will gladly assist in achieving the desired result.

    I can vouch extensively for MMF2's HWA abilities as I hope to also do at the next Click Convention. I have stress tested it to death and have developed numerous engines that run smooth, I am in the middle of a new engine now that is already maxing out the specs you pointed out in the OP of this thread yet I see no issues. This exact same engine will be ported to XNA and iOS. I have developed it from the ground up with XNA and iOS in-mind, that way I know to be careful when using extensions (so most of the time, in fact ALL of the time thus far I have developed it using 0 extensions for ultimate compatibility).

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue 66
    Well, when even my cell phone has a dual core nowadays, I would say this is kind of a big deal now. Back in 2006 there wasn't an iPhone either, but now MMF2 supports it, so apparently Clickteam do spend a lot of time to change MMF2 to go with the times.

    OK, so you're saying that MMF2 just ignores 3/4 of my CPU power, but it has nothing to do with the lack of performance?
    Again, as Looki said you are confusing the technicalities of your argument, so this would make your argument VOID. So this has turned into a senseless debate about Multimedia Fusion 2's capabilities on a technical level that you're not even acquainted with...

    Just to help you out I thought I'd point you in the right direction:
    http://superuser.com/questions/13308...the-difference

    You have to remember, MMF2 was designed on routines used from way back in 94 (KnP), it took innovation from CnC/TGF and MMF 1.5. 2006 was 6 years ago... If it doesn't support what you acclaim to 'know' then why did you choose it for this project? There are plenty of software/engines/frameworks out there that are 6 years old that don't support the latest technologies or updates, that is why MMF3 is in the pipeline. I personally wouldn't want them to rush MMF3 out as everyone here is keen for a new, clean, innovative interface that allows for a different approach to design and implementation.

    ClickTeam have always been well-known for innovation and when it comes to innovation they have always excelled, I look forward to the same approach in MMF3 with a robust and adaptive outlook on technologies beyond the initial release date.
    Want to learn Clickteam Fusion 2.5?




  4. #44
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 DeveloperAndroid Export ModuleiOS Export ModuleSWF Export Module
    Eliyahu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    1,523
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I find it interesting when people just rush into the forums saying "MY GAME IS SLOW, IT MUST BE MMF2'S FAULT!" And this exact type of thread is nothing new here. What gets me is how people can just say such a large game is not working. Do they not test individual pieces? Do they not run the game before it is complete? They just build some humongous engine and that's that.

    Part of developing is testing the game and optimization. If you're making the game step by step, it should be evident where the problems are occuring. If at any point it is slow, you stop and figure out why. If you don't see anything obvious in your code, try to find out if you can fix it through trial and error. If you get completely stuck, post a competent thread on the forum, and someone will surely help you.

    To whip up a massive game then not have the ability to individually attempt to figure out what's wrong is inefficient coding. To hastily blame Clickteam and not even question your own programming is just naive.

  5. #45
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 DeveloperFusion 2.5+ DLCAndroid Export ModuleHTML5 Export ModuleiOS Export ModuleUniversal Windows Platform Export ModuleSWF Export ModuleXNA Export Module
    Outcast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    3,156
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    When did these problems start to occur Blue? Because I know I played Panda demo a while back and then it run fine. And it runs fine in this video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42yOjlsNRt0

    Could you please elaborate on "Turns out if you have an event that turns off a lot of groups, you should NOT use the condition "repeat only once when event loops" but instead use a negated version of "if group X is enabled", which increases performance a lot."

    I did not really understand what you meant by this. Actually I would love to have some kind of big article or example files of ways to do optimizing in the code. It would be extremely helpful. A place where all clickers or the most experienced could share their knowledge on how to optimize the code.

  6. #46
    No Products Registered

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    6
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    For me (in Knytt Stories Ex) the fact Actives take much time to create (in non-HWA at least) is the obstacle.
    Eliyahu, I think Blue66 told that the game became slow as world size grew. This would happen anyway, no matter how optimized behaviors are.

    Blue66, it is possible to greatly increase world size with reasonable amount of extra work. You can destroy all off-screen objects once the frame is loaded and create them when they are close to screen. I think this won't be too hard with Python or XLua. I only have experience with the latter. World can't be enlarged infinitely this way, at some point it would start loading too slow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny View Post
    MMF2 is more than capable to produce decent gaming engines.
    Capable, but certainly not well suited for.

  7. #47
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 DeveloperFusion 2.5+ DLCAndroid Export ModuleHTML5 Export ModuleiOS Export ModuleUniversal Windows Platform Export ModuleSWF Export ModuleXNA Export Module
    Outcast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    3,156
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by GrayFace View Post
    For me (in Knytt Stories Ex) the fact Actives take much time to create (in non-HWA at least) is the obstacle.
    Eliyahu, I think Blue66 told that the game became slow as world size grew. This would happen anyway, no matter how optimized behaviors are.

    Blue66, it is possible to greatly increase world size with reasonable amount of extra work. You can destroy all off-screen objects once the frame is loaded and create them when they are close to screen. I think this won't be too hard with Python or XLua. I only have experience with the latter. World can't be enlarged infinitely this way, at some point it would start loading too slow.


    Capable, but certainly not well suited for.
    About destorying things like enemies when they are offscreen. Is not creating objects all the time going to slow things down? What about object pooling? Could an alternative be to stop all movement of the obeject, disable its group and set its animation to a single frame tiny square, and then enable everything when it comes into the screen again?

  8. #48
    Clickteam Clickteam
    LB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Richardson, Texas, North America
    Posts
    8,937
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I would really love to see a an HWA frame with 800 objects that gets less than 60 fps. I could learn a lot of useful things about what not to do.
    Working as fast as I can on Fusion 3

  9. #49
    Clicker Multimedia Fusion 2 DeveloperSWF Export Module
    RickyRombo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Somewhere between here and there
    Posts
    3,167
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I think we should just all sit back and appreciate how awesome our user base is here. Even if some responses were a bit edgy, pretty much everyone was focusing on clarifying and helping the OP. OP got help directly from Simon, an Admin, which is unlikely if it weren't for CT's activism. I can guarantee the OP's concerns are being taken into account, especially for MMF3.

    If this were any other forum this could have gotten really ugly but both the replies and the OP have been helpful and clarifying for the most part.

    Blue66 seems to have discovered his problem, whatever it was. He brought up what he thought could be a useful technology to improve performance - whether it is or not I'm not able to say - and he stirred up a pretty cool discussion that caused me to learn quite a bit about a technology I never knew much about.

    Outcast, I believe the benefit of checking if a group is already activated means that it will run much less causing less of a slowdown.

    For instance, if you use only one action when event loops, then each unique time an event is triggered it will run the actions.

    I just wanted to say cheers to all who participated. I'm really proud to be a part of such a help-first flame-second community.

  10. #50
    Clickteam Clickteam
    Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,642
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)
    I'd just like to remind everyone what a pleasant environment this community is compared to virtually any forum you can think of on the internet. This of course comes from people here respecting each other and not descending to the level of personal insults etc. This thread nearly went there, hopefully people have calmed down a bit now

    A point that I think is often overlooked is that English is not everyone's first language and things which may seem to be agitative in their wording may be completely innocuous to the OP (not saying that is the case here necessarily, just a point of note in general). A little understanding and thought about this before we reply or counter-reply to each other could only be a good thing.

    Just to add to the discussion of multithreading here... MMF is designed to create games/applications in a linear fashion. Events run through in order from top to bottom in strict order (any loop events jump out of the normal processing loop, run their own loop - again in strict order - and then return to just after where the loop was called and continue as before). Global events and behaviours get added to this processing loop and run in the same linear fashion along with all of the other events. Many extensions rely explicitly on this linear order, with the last event in the list triggering actions such as a flush of certain data (received and processed messages in lacewing for example) or a redraw of any objects whose visual aspects have been altered in any given iteration of the frame loop.

    Because of this structure there is a huge limitation on what you could achieve with multithreaded processing. For the most part the linear nature literally dictates a singular processing, even though certain perceived behaviours of MMF such as loops may make it seem otherwise. Where multithreading could be useful is situations in which an extension runs along side MMF's runtime in a client/server manner. Examples of this could be Box2D, the Lua objects or ActiveX plugin. These examples essentially run code away from the runtime but allow the runtime to communicate with them. Sub-application frames could in theory be given their own CPU core, but I imagine this could present some significant reprogramming challenges and there may be issues synchronising things like the global variables between them which could make this difficult/impossible - I'm not an expert on this field so don't quote me too hard here!

    In a sense, the ability to use graphics card hardware to accelerate the visual processing etc. has a very similar effect... the GPU which is specifically designed to process that sort of data takes the burden off of the CPU now, so improvements in the direction suggested have already been made albeit not strictly multi-CPU-core processing.

Page 5 of 14 FirstFirst ... 3 4 5 6 7 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 10
    Last Post: 15th October 2012, 04:33 PM
  2. How can I improve screensaver performance on Win 7
    By RGBreality in forum Multimedia Fusion 2 - Technical Support
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10th November 2010, 08:03 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •