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Thread: Node based events for MMF3?

  1. #21
    Clicker

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    Quote Originally Posted by danjo View Post
    now why would you want to make something that WORKS already, more confusing to the novice! - you quite obviously have missed the point of the software. IF you have outgrown it... go and use something else!
    There is no need to be draconian about it. Both an event editor and a nodal schematic view can easily coexist. Schematics are often easier to view in most cases. The data can be the same "under the hood" but the visual presentation to the user can and should have the option to be displayed in a number of ways.

    You obviously have nothing to offer this discussion, so why bother even posting?

  2. #22
    Clicker Multimedia Fusion 2

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    I think generally a scripting method together with the click method wouldn't work. That's just a personal view, but I'm convinced that with better keystroke support and implementation of scripting concepts like functions and classes into the normal layout, it could be quicker than both. Imagine it as a kind of auto-complete, that's how I envision it. You type the object name and the function you want to call and MMF at once starts prompting possible objects, and each time you press enter to confirm the selection and move to the next step. Like this:

    Types 'Gr...'
    MMF presents 'Groovy Object' in a dropdown list.
    Presses enter to confirm.
    Types 'Fun...'
    MMF presents 'Funky Condition' in a dropdown list.
    Presses enter to confirm.
    Types 'D...'
    MMF presents 'Duck' and 'Duckling' in a dropdown list.
    Uses arrow key to choose Duck and presses enter to confirm.
    Types 'Q...'
    MMF presents 'Quack' in a dropdown list.
    Presses enter to confirm.

    That's the gist of it anyway, it's certainly quicker than typing Groovy Object: Funky Condition > Duck: Quack or whatever other schema they may otherwise implement, and would use the same editor as the point and click version.

  3. #23
    Clickteam Clickteam
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    Kinda like a Visual Basic setup... nice touch.

    Dines, I wish I had the time to visually map out what I meant, in my head it looks ridiculously cool!
    Want to learn Clickteam Fusion 2.5?




  4. #24
    Clicker

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    I remember someone mentioning once about Clickteam planning a way for you to be able to copy/paste code from the forum into a game and have it work, but I don't see how that would be possible since you probably won't have the same objects setup that the code requires... so that's pretty much impossible.

    I think it would be nice if MMF3 had a more informative debugger also... Something that could show you a text feedback of what the game is doing. Like a log of value changes or whatever. I'm having a tough time fixing some bugs with my current game in progress because there are so many locations where values change that it's hard to keep track of when/where/why the value is changing now. Say you have a specific global value and you are changing this value over dozens of different conditions... it would be nice to know when the game does something wrong, why exactly it did that and where it did it from.

    Like "oh I see, at line 350 this global value is changing to 3 because of such and such conditions, that is why the value isn't 1 at this point in time..."

    Instead you literally have to go through each event and look for the mess up yourself.

    If there was like an "action log" that read out something like this:

    - Global Value B set to 2 because of conditions met at line 315
    - Active object direction set to 0 because of conditions met at line 20

    etc. That would be a HUGE help.

  5. #25
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 MacFusion 2.5 DeveloperAndroid Export ModuleHTML5 Export ModuleiOS Export ModuleSWF Export ModuleXNA Export ModuleUnicode Add-on
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    A debugger would be a good idea, but obviously for the larger events it would become incredibly verbose and unhelpful unless you specify what you want monitored. Would you go about this as a per a/c/e ID, or all changes on a specific object instance?

  6. #26
    Clicker

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    It would be fine if you could just filter it down to specific objects or even specific groups/event number ranges. Like maybe it only monitors events 40-95, or it only monitors the special object, or whatever you feel you need.

    I don't think it needs to monitor only certain actions/conditions/etc... More like specific objects/groups/events.

    For example my current game is having issues with a particular global value so it would be nice to monitor what changes are happening to that global value as the game runs. Just a simple summary log each time the value changes and what event/condition caused it to change.

  7. #27
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 DeveloperiOS Export ModuleSWF Export Module

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    Node based events for MMF3?

    Yeah, a node based event-view and event-editor would be great. I worked a lot with Apples Quartz-Composer node-based system, and I think it would be something that could also work pretty good for MMF.

  8. #28
    Clicker

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    if you dont like my opinion then why ask for people opinions? cant have it 1 way and CLAIM im trolling.
    i DONT LIKE THE IDEA.
    this is the A-typical thread that gets posted about what idea someone wants in future versions... can be all get back to 3d then?

    re. nodes;
    so what "some" people want is http://www.brainworth.net/

  9. #29
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 DeveloperAndroid Export ModuleHTML5 Export ModuleSWF Export ModuleInstall Creator ProPatch Maker
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    The Possibilities

    While the idea is an interesting concept. I'm not sure this would lend it's self to MMF as there are more events/expressions than screen real-estate to display the full strings or cut down strings on the screen.
    The node connections would get messy and without a way to automatically organise the nodes you will be right in the middle of spaghetti junction.
    The current way the information is laid out in a clean list with the option for commenting. So you know what group of events do what.
    In a node based system you will be panning around a huge surface trying to find the area you need without some search function I doubt this will aid in productivity.
    I'm not saying don't use a node system for the whole of MMF as it works quite well when relating to visual/graphical aspects of coding.

    I have used this node method for programming simple games in Blender about a decade ago with the 'Game Logic' and the events where no where near as complex as they can be in MMF.Blender also uses node based editing of materials/shaders and video/graphical editing so It really is useful in this area.
    IMHO I think it's a bad idea for code editing. May-be one CT have to suck and see.

  10. #30
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 Developer

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    I also don't like the idea, and don't think someone should be criticized for saying so (even if they don't give reasons) - I'd hate to see people assume an idea was popular because only the supporters were allowed to voice their opinions.
    Anyway, it would require a lot of extra work by Clickteam, for a minimal increase in productivity for the user (honestly, I doubt most people would even touch it).
    I also very much dislike anything which conceals the way MMF does things under the surface, just on principal. The crappy event editor is one example - it hides the order of actions, which is crucial. This "node-based" system is the same - it shows chains of events, but gives no indication of how they relate to one another. MMF does not follow a maze of lines - it works its way methodically down a list, from top to bottom. This is part of the reason why the event list editor is so good - it actually reflects the way MMF2 processes your events.
    People have trouble with MMF because they don't understand how it works. Beginners start with the event editor because it looks simple (just tick a few boxes and you're done), little realizing that it's only telling them half the story, and causing a bunch of unfixable bugs in the process. This kind of editor only makes that problem worse.

    As others have pointed out, sub-events are what MMF really needs.
    eg.


    This would also allow loops to be properly implemented, without any of this "On loop" nonsense.
    eg.


    The other thing that would be handy, is the ability to call event groups directly (like functions in other programming languages). At the moment, you can activate/deactivate groups - it would be good if you could also instantly run all the code in a group, from anywhere else in the event list - like how fastloops work at the moment.

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