Randomly Generated Platformer ala "Spelunky" in MMF2.5?

[Del_Duio]

The game I'm working on, well it's coming out pretty great IMO. In it, the hero gets assigned missions and goes into separate (but pre-made) levels and everything is cool.

However, I really think my game would benefit from having randomly-generated dungeons in it. The best example I can think of is the game Spelunky- I bought the XBOX version for $15 a couple years ago and my wife and I are STILL playing it daily to the tune of 20 or 30 times a day. I think its main draw is the randomness of it all.

Which brings me back to my game. I think that if I could figure it out (hint: I CAN'T lol) I'd like to have the levels be randomly generated for my guy to explore and kill monsters in and etc. The hero is 16 pixels L x H, which is the same size of a "block" / tile or whatever. Now for the pre-made levels I have, I didn't use tiling or arrays or anything, I just drew the levels in MSpaint and imported them into the frame as an obstacled background..

Sorry for the long-windedness, but is or does anybody have any sort of example that I might start with to learn how to do this?

Thank you, and this guy thanks you too!

[faber]

Maybe this example from the clickstore can help? http://clickstore.clickteam.com/open-source/platformer_nomal_maps

[Del_Duio]

Cool thanks buddy, I wouldn't want the levels to be unlimited but that's a great start

[mobichan]

I believe I read somewhere that the "randomness" in Spelunky is similar to Diablo. It uses premade "sections" and randomly stitches them together using a set of rules. So there is a certain amount of hand tuning that goes into the creation of each section so it can fit modularly to the other sections. This is a pretty common thing with these types of games. But you need to consider if it makes your game fun or not. Just having a lot of mix and match sections doesn't mean the game balance will work out each time a level is created. You might need to sort your sections into sub groups so that you have a little more control over what sections can be combined to get the difficulty you desire.

Good Luck.

[Del_Duio]

Hmmmm.. So for a simple example let's say that the frame is divided up into 4 different sections of Upper LH, Upper RH, Lower LH, and Lower RH.

I could potentially create 4 large active objects w/ different frames of an animation that would have the section layouts to them (one for each different frame) and paste as backdrop into their quadrant. And then go back and compare to see which ones would get ladders and etc.

Something like that would work, but I think I'd need to have a ton of these different room sections else it'd repeat an awful lot. I see this in Spelunky too, where there's a bunch of repeaters but he must've had way more than a mere 4 sections. Something to think about, thanks mobichan

[mobichan]

Yea, your approach where you paint each section will require a lot of art assets on your part. Spelunky is using tiles that are saving into layouts (probably an array) and then the game creates that layout at runtime using the tiles. This is way more efficient and less of a headache for you. But there are definitely ways to optimize your current approach. You could, for example, make much smaller chunks (not 1/4 of the screen, but maybe a chunk for every 1/10 of the screen). This would give you more possibilities for different looking rooms, assuming you only see one screen at a time (no scrolling). Otherwise, you will probably get used to seeing the same reused sections. Also, trying to make larger chunks flow properly to their adjacent chunk is more limited.

Also, if you have ladders and that sort of thing as separate objects, you probably need some sort of file that is storing their positions, depending on which image chunk is shown. So you already probably need to use an array or list object.

[Del_Duio]

I think that'd be the hardest part. The guy can normally jump one tile high (16 pixels) without a problem so I wouldn't want to have a bunch of parts of the dungeon where he'd get stuck and not be able to climb back up again. I know this is most likely why all of Spellunky's (main) exits are at the very bottom but mine might be anywhere.

See, THIS is why they pay guys to make engines for games. Us artists aren't cut out for this kinda' thing hah.

[mobichan]

It has nothing to do with an engine. It has to do with how you design your game and how you design your code to make it happen. I am an artist by trade, but MMF is about the simplest way to get your game running without needing to learn how to code. But if you want to make anything outside of the generic, you will need to push out of your comfort zone. If I had to take a guess (based on a game I am making that includes some random level components) I would say the level chunk design is by far the hardest part of making a game like this. Once you establish guidelines for how your chunks are made, the rest is gravy.

[Del_Duio]

Here's one for you then: Any idea on how to get them from not looking like totally square chunks / edges? Unless it's totally Atari territory it looks like crap to have all squares and etc with no 'rough edges'. Normally I use backgrounds for the pre-made stuff but this would be pretty different I think.

[mobichan]

So, do you think Spelunky looks too tiled? If so, you can just paint your chunks to look more organic. There are lots of 2D games where they hide the grid very well so you don't see it as a grid of blocks. But you should always consider that having too much organic shaping can confuse a player and not give them enough information about the collision on surfaces. Check out Henk Nieborg's site for examples of great organic pixel work: http://www.henknieborg.nl/ This guy is a master at hiding the grid.