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View Poll Results: Would you buy a game like this? (Read thread first, please)

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  • I'd almost CERTAINLY buy such a game!

    0 0%
  • Probably, but could you add/change/remove something first? (elaborate in thread)

    1 25.00%
  • I likely wouldn't buy it unless it is FAR longer.

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  • I likely wouldn't buy it unless it was FAR more polished

    2 50.00%
  • I likely wouldn't buy it unless it has a nice, long challenge mode.

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  • I likely wouldn't buy it, I don't think there is much you can do to change that.

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  • I likely wouldn't buy it, but I'm not a huge fan of real-time strategy games in the first place.

    0 0%
  • Other (please elaborate in thread)

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Thread: Robovania: Dark Rebellion - Would you pay for a longer, more polished game like it?

  1. #1
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    Robovania: Dark Rebellion - Would you pay for a longer, more polished game like it?

    As the title says, this thread is mainly for a poll: Would you pay for a game that is basically a longer, more-polished game that plays similarly to it?

    If you would buy it, then great, that's pretty much all I want to know, though specifying WHAT you feel needs to be polished, if anything, and how much longer you think it should be, and what you feel needs to be longer, would be welcome feedback nonetheless! (And if there's anything you feel would make you even MORE likely to buy it, such as extra features that Robovania: Dark Rebellion doesn't have, then feel free to let me know about those as well!)

    If you wouldn't buy it if it was just a somewhat longer, slightly more polished game that plays similarly (which, mind you, would mostly consist of new levels, new bosses, etc.), then what do you feel it would need before it would really feel like something worth buying?

    If you haven't yet played the game, you can download it from the link in this thread: http://community.clickteam.com/threads/97217-Robovania-Dark-Rebellion-Late-beta-release!?p=693203&viewfull=1#post693203

    I'll be interested to hear what you think!

    (P.S. Yes, this is basically the sort of game that War for Robovania is going to be. It's why I'm curious about it in the first place: I'm trying to gauge interest.)

    (P.P.S. Yes, I voted other. I want to be able to see the results quickly and easily whenever I look at this thread, so I can more easily figure out what people think.)

  2. #2
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    To the person who voted on the poll: Could you elaborate on what you feel needs more polish?

  3. #3
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    Tried latest version and voted "probably but.."
    the things I would enjoy seeing in a similar game are:

    - obstacles/interactive elements/variations in the map
    - power ups / fancy weapons
    - graphics are clean and effective but could be made a bit more rich/distinctive maybe?
    (don't know exactly how though as I'm definitely unable to do that on my own )
    - strategic objectives maybe? like "destroy enemy's power plant to: downpower his armies / instantly win / gain extra credits"
    - yeah more challenges, unless you plan on a mobile version, which could be nice even if shorter

    (don't know if this is suitable for this kind of game as I never played that much RTS)

    The game mechanics on the other hand are very clean and everything works smoothly
    controls are accurate and responsive
    and I like the "robot setting" too

    Just a few ideas/impressions,
    good job!

  4. #4
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    Hmm... okay, those may not be too hard to implement. Don't expect to see them in Robovania: Dark Rebellion (though Shadowstrike's stage has the darkness gimmick), but I may be able to add them into War for Robovania.

    The specifics on what I may be implementing/changing (I could use some feedback on some of these):

    1. Obstacles/interactive elements/variations in the map

    One of the problems here is adding more complicated pathfinding then what the engine already has, which would involve adjusting the already-complex movement code (that even I don't fully understand, as the game was built on an open-source RTS engine made in MMF2, which has since been heavily modified in just about every regard... except for the basic movement system, which I think has mostly stayed untouched), would be rather difficult.

    The engine has some basic pathfinding already, though, but that brings us to problem 2: Most of the stages have already been built, and most of them don't have any good places to add in obstacles as far as I can recall.

    So this gives me three choices (well, there are technically more, but most of them would just be variations of these 3, or they aren't ideas I'd exactly want to go with... if you have any others you'd like to bring to the table, feel free to do so ): A. Try to find room to place obstacles in each stage anyways, B. Add in stage gimmicks, such as adding conveyor belts to the Claw Mecha's stage, or C. A bit of both: Add in obstacles where I can, and in stages where I can't, I add in stage gimmicks instead.

    Which of those solutions sounds best to you? I personally would like to just go the stage gimmick route, since it would be a bit easier to add to the existing stages then the obstacles (and it might be more interesting then generic obstacles anyways), but if you'd rather I add obstacles, I can see what I can do...

    2. Power ups/fancy weapons

    Depending on what you mean, fancy weapons may already be covered, or it may be something I still have to add. If you mean "give the units interesting weapons", then I may have that covered, with the Flamebot using explosive fireballs, and the Blizzardbot instantly dealing damage to the closest enemy, meaning it never misses (and because it constantly deals a small amount of damage, it acts as a sort of damage-over-time-focused unit). If not, then what do you mean? Do you mean you want the option to call in airstrikes or some such thing? Is that also/instead what you'd want from the power-ups?

    P.S. I may have an idea that is better then simply calling in an airstrike... would rather not spoil it just in case I decide to implement it, but suffice to say, it would be a bit more interesting than a normal airstrike.

    3. Graphics are clean and effective but could be made a bit more rich/distinctive maybe?

    Depends on which graphics you think need improvement. In War for Robovania, the units already have fairly distinctive shapes and designs, but in Dark Rebellion, I tried saving some time by having the designs mostly be the same aside from the bosses.

    Example screenshot, and yes, it even shows the unit you get from the Future Mecha... since it doesn't show what it actually does, I don't care too much :

    Screenshot of all the units.png

    (Click the screenshot to zoom in a bit.)

    In order, from top-left to bottom-right: Flamebot, Clawbot, Soldierbot, Blizzardbot, Spikebot, Soldierbot, ?????????? (I'd rather avoid spoiling what this one is if possible), Decoy, Soldierbot. (And yes, I listed "Soldierbot" 3 times. Hey, there are 3 of 'em in the screenshot. )

    Does that look a bit more like what you want?

    4. Strategic objectives maybe? Like "destroy enemy's power plant to: downpower his armies / instantly win / gain extra credits"

    Maaaybeee... If I do implement such things, they might be as objectives in the challenge mode rather then as normal level objectives, but succeeding those challenges in particular would give you bonus starting money due to the extra difficulty involved... not sure of the best approach to take, but I have been looking for an excuse to implement extra levels of some kind, so maybe...

    5. Y
    eah more challenges, unless you plan on a mobile version, which could be nice even if shorter

    Well, I guess I should make more challenges in the challenge mode, then.

    The way the challenges work, by the way: Most challenges have you go through segments of existing stages with an abnormal and/or less-than-useful line-up of units, such as going through a part of the Spikes Mecha's stage using only Flamebots, or going through a few waves of the Claw Mecha's stage without Decoys (admittedly a rather easy challenge, but it's one of the first challenges, so...). Some challenges have unique twists as well, such as one challenge where you can only earn money using cash upgrades (defeating enemy units earns you nothing). And a few challenges have you go through unique waves instead of waves that the stage normally includes, though usually still with a line-up of units that may or may not be ideal.

    Your feedback on these ideas would be appreciated, and your previous feedback is already much appreciated.

  5. #5
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    1 - I can see the issues in implementing pathfinding.
    Is it totally necessary, btw? A straight point-click-&-go-in-line movement for each unit couldn't do? (with some tricks to avoid them overlapping)
    My personal feel would be that I wouldn't mind pathfinding if the stage is not that "intricate" but just few bigger obstacles like "room walls" or pits, something along that line.
    Yeah gimmicks would fit also, I jsut had the feeling some variation in stages could have added more fun and strategy

    2 - Well, due to lack in time I probably didn't test your game well enough to see all weapons (bots) available, so my impression may have been too early for that! I'll play more deeply and see what you have already in! Powerups appearing around was an idea to give you some "distraction" while playing, so that you have to make hard choices like "keep position or grab that tasty smart-bomb?" Powerups could be just anything from the airstrike to a temporary boost in speed / power etc. (very unfocused idea in the "detail", more of a "general" idea on the concept of power ups appearing around )

    3 - Yeah, bots variation is cool! I was probably thinking more about stages (backdrop terrain) and main screens (all dark, maybe some fitting background?)
    but again, with the terrain would be probably more variation with what we were talking about in (1): obstacle, gimmicks etc.

    4 - This was the less needed among ideas I suggested, just an idea, again, to add some variation/distraction, but would think at this as definitely optional

    5 - Yeah, Challenges are an interesting twist, would probably find them a good replay reason once experienced to master the game

  6. #6
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    1. In regards to the movement: It's a bit trickier then that... you see, the engine already HAS some basic pathfinding integrated, and it already HAS tricks to keep units from overlapping... and those are exactly the parts of the engine that I don't quite fully understand, because ALL of the movement code is somehow crammed into ONE, maybe two or three at best, event/events. Given that the engine was designed to work in 20 events, it would explain why the movement code is a bit messier then it really needs to be...
    In regards to obstacles and gimmicks: The idea of the gimmicks is to give stages more variety then "hey, look at these new units!", so I think those could work well enough instead of obstacles (since the idea was more variety, and stage gimmicks would add that). The basic pathfinding would be enough to maneuver around basic obstacles (e.g. pits and boulders), but I get the feeling that adding in 2-4 or so boulders/pits per stage wouldn't have as much variety as stage gimmicks (with how many places there are with enemies spawning in said places at one point or another in a given stage, it may be hard to find room for very many more pits/boulders more then that), at least with what I have in mind...

    Ideas that I have for stage gimmicks:
    Spike traps that spring out of the floor in the Spikes Mecha stage. They give you some warning before popping out of the ground, and they can hurt enemies in addition to player units.
    Conveyor belts that push around units in the Claw Mecha's stage. They may change directions every now and then to make it more interesting.
    Flame streams that shoot out of the lava in the Fire Mecha stage. The lava at the edges of the arena would also deal damage, like it always should have.
    Snowballs that you can push around into enemies in the Chill Mecha stage, though pushing them slows down your units quite a bit as well. They also might block projectiles.
    And one-way teleporters in the Future Mecha stage.

    What do you think, would those be suitable alternatives to obstacles that your units need to maneuver around? I mean, most of them would affect the layout of the stage, it's just that most of them would do so in a way that wouldn't necessarily interfere too much with the existing enemy layouts (especially since the snowballs, flame streams, and spike traps would be randomized, at least to an extent).

    2. In regards to the weapons: It's fine. As for power-ups... hmm, that actually could be interesting. I'll have to think about how I might be able to integrate that... it may not fit very well with the gameplay, but it's something to consider for sure, since on the other hand, it might fit very well...

    3. The backgrounds are a bit more varied in War for Robovania (in Robovania: Dark Rebellion, I just re-used the Claw Mecha background for all 3 normal stages). Behold, a screenshot of each of the 5 Mecha stages (two screenshots for the Spikes Mecha stage to show off a special trait it has... though that one you would really need a video to see the subtle-but-there parallax scrolling effect involved):

    Fire Mecha stage screenshot.jpgChill mecha stage screenshot.jpgClaw Mecha stage screenshot.jpgSpikes Mecha stage underwater screenshot.jpgSpikes mecha stage drained water screenshot.jpgFuture Mecha stage screenshot.jpg

    (Click on the screenshots to make them larger. Also note that the Fire Mecha stage has a bit of lava at the borders, which you can see in the mini-map of the screenshot at least.)

    Note that the Spikes Mecha stage is underwater for the first two waves. The water drains away for the mini-boss, and stays drained for the rest of the stage.

    So, better variety then Robovania: Dark Rebellion, I'm guessing? That, and adding in stage gimmicks and/or obstacles would certainly give them even more visual variety then they already have.

    4. Actually, I think I have a plan for one stage which will actually use the idea of an alternate objective...

    5. Exactly why I started working on the challenge mode in the first place.

    So I think I'm starting to narrow down what it is that I need to do to make things better... still need a bit more clarification, and I need to make sure I'm understanding things correctly, but I'm starting to think that this process is going to be quicker then I thought it would be.

  7. #7
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    1. very interesting gimmick ideas, that would definitely do as far as my impression on variety was

    I thought at "obstacles" for variety, but also to give more "structure" to stages
    (i.e. ground with rivers/trees/rocks/chasm - "Claw Mecha" stage with "rooms", or defensive walls, etc.)
    so that they would look as an interactive/strategic part of the game rather than a plain background.

    (if the current pathfinding is just few events, maybe some not dramatically awkward solution could be found without too many headaches?)

    But yeah I think gimmicks could add to variation, even more probably.
    Would be simpler doing conveyor belts than rocks?
    Mmm yeah, indeed I guess so, because you just need to "shift" units instead of testing their constraints
    hope they won't break your "avoid overlap" code though

    2. well, powerups were just an idea, I actually think it's not very common in RTS (again, from my limited experience with this kind of game), would make this some sort of hybrid "shootemup-RTS"

    3. one "ground" type for each stage is fine, but they are a bit too vague/indistinct/redundant maybe?
    I was thinking something along the line of Warcraft maybe: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/f68xtiktlRA/maxresdefault.jpg
    (seeing the "obstacles around" thing also with trees and that green pool)
    but maybe with a more "handdrawn" style like the one you are using for cutscenes and bots, of course

    4 & 5. cool! Hope you won't be too distressed, these were probably the least important among impressions

    Hope this is useful >>> that other players would share my same impressions,
    hope I'm not giving you wrong directions and/or too much work to do!
    This was just my very personal feel with the game

  8. #8
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    1. Well, I guess that's pretty much settled then.

    2. Is this exactly a traditional RTS anyways? I mean, it already kinda plays a bit more like a shooter... Anyways, I think I MIGHT have an idea, but I'm still not sure about it...

    3. Yeah, the backgrounds MOSTLY were not updated during the graphical revamp that the rest of the game got (though the Claw Mecha background WAS actually redone during that). I may want to get to work on that... the only problem I may have is trying to get the Spikes Mecha's background looking good (and also possibly the grassy background that shows up in some of the end-game stages)... also, the Future Mecha's background wouldn't really change much by re-doing it, so I think I'll likely leave that one as-is (that leaves me with the Chill Mecha, the Fire Mecha, the Spikes Mecha, and the end-game stages... shouldn't be too hard... hopefully. ). I'll try and ask for feedback (from my siblings at minimum) on the new takes of the backgrounds before adding them, so hopefully the end up looking okay.

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