User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 20

Thread: What are the advantages of using a level editor

  1. #1
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 DeveloperAndroid Export ModuleHTML5 Export ModuleiOS Export ModuleUniversal Windows Platform Export Module
    Retrobolt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    395
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    What are the advantages of using a level editor

    I'm sure this has been talked about before,but I cannot find it.So what are the advantages of using a level editor other than the one frame thing?

  2. #2

  3. #3
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 (Steam)Fusion 2.5 Developer (Steam)Fusion 2.5+ DLC (Steam)Android Export Module (Steam)HTML5 Export Module (Steam)iOS Export Module (Steam)Universal Windows Platform Export Module (Steam)
    Volnaiskra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    www.sprykegame.com
    Posts
    2,081
    Mentioned
    71 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It depends on the type of game though. Salamanderpants' 3rd- and 4th-last asterisk points are obviously true for certain games, but they wouldn't be for mine.

    I looked far and wide for examples of level editors that would work for me, and in the end I had to build one that used the frame editor.

    I needed to be able to work outside of a grid sometimes, nudge items with cursors, resize elements, move previously placed elements, allow elements to overlap, work at multiple zooms, select large groups of items and duplicate them, etc. All of which the frame editor does but most custom editors I've seen don't.

    But I think that just goes to show the individual nature of level editors, and that's one of the benefits of them: you can build them to suit your own game and workflow.

    Also, another minor benefit is that levels are held in tiny array files, which means that to update a level, you don't need to re-export the entire exe.

  4. #4
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 (Steam)Fusion 2.5 Developer (Steam)Fusion 2.5+ DLC (Steam)Android Export Module (Steam)HTML5 Export Module (Steam)iOS Export Module (Steam)Universal Windows Platform Export Module (Steam)
    Volnaiskra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    www.sprykegame.com
    Posts
    2,081
    Mentioned
    71 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I didn't say it wasn't possible. But it sure would feel like recreating the wheel if anyone were to try. By the time you duplicated all the functionality of the frame editor (let alone improved on it) you probably could have finished half your game already

    I've never had a problem with the frame editor. I work fast in it. So replacing that isn't the point of a level editor for me. The point for me is being able to have my code in a single frame.

    If there really are level editors out there that are "far more powerful" than the frame editor, then no one seems to be sharing them. Because all the ones that I've seen (and I did intensively search at one point) don't even come close.

    If anyone knows of any good ones that people have shared, perhaps consider linking to them in this thread

  5. #5
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 Developer

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    1,300
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If you're using tile-based graphics, which most people do (for a whole host of very good reasons), it's a no-brainer - a tile-based level editor is going to be much better than the built-in frame editor.

    Aside from that, the main reason you don't see many non-tile-based level editors, is that people create level editors with only the features that they actually need (as you say, why try to reinvent the wheel?) - so they're more powerful, but also far more specialized. Noone is going to duplicate all the functionality of the frame editor and improve on it, because noone needs all the functionality of the frame editor - they will just duplicate the parts that they need, and then add the extra functionality on top. Basically, the frame editor does everything quite badly, while custom level editors do some things very well, and simply don't do some other things at all.

    Having said that, it actually would be very easy to create a general-purpose level editor, with all the features of the frame editor and more - things like the ability to individually set the properties of specific instances of the same object, or to paint tiles with a brush (incl. auto-tile features). It's just that the only reason anyone would bother, is if they were planning to sell it on the Clickstore or something, rather than making it for their own use.

  6. #6
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 (Steam)Fusion 2.5 Developer (Steam)Fusion 2.5+ DLC (Steam)Android Export Module (Steam)HTML5 Export Module (Steam)iOS Export Module (Steam)Universal Windows Platform Export Module (Steam)
    Volnaiskra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    www.sprykegame.com
    Posts
    2,081
    Mentioned
    71 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I need more visual flexibility than a strictly tiled system can provide, so maybe that's one of the reasons I never found a level editor example that worked for me. I do use tiles, but only to an extent.

    I'm curious what these benefits are that you guys are referring to. I keep hearing how much better your editors are than the frame editor, and I believe that they are - at least for your particular needs - yet no one's actually given any examples. It's hard not to be sceptical, and believe that your streamlined productivity in some areas are coming at the cost of significant flexibility in other areas.

    Salamanderpants mentioned using bounding boxes for pasting numerous tiles. That sounds good, but it also sounds like it'd be counteracted by the many ways of pasting numerous tiles that the native frame editor has, which salamander's editor likely hasn't: clone/duplicate rows+columns with a hotkey, drag-select multiple objects and drag to move/copy them, ctrl-c and ctrl-v).

    When I think of all the features I use in the frame editor, I know that realistically, it would take me (and I'd wager all but the most technically proficient Clickers) months to recreate and bug test properly, and that's before I started adding bespoke features.

    If someone did do that (and I mean everything: layers, multiple levels of undo/redo, zoom, custom grid, etc.), and then added many of the most common custom features on top of that, I know I'd be willing to pay a pretty penny on the clickstore for that.

  7. #7
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 Developer

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    1,300
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    ...but it also sounds like it'd be counteracted by the many ways of pasting numerous tiles that the native frame editor has, which salamander's editor likely hasn't: clone/duplicate rows+columns with a hotkey, drag-select multiple objects and drag to move/copy them, ctrl-c and ctrl-v).
    Those features are of no use whatsoever in making a tile-based game, where its very likely that every tile is a duplicate of the same "tile" object, but with different animation frames selected, and perhaps different alterable values, etc. If you're making a tile-based game, you need features like the ability to "paint" tiles, flood fill areas, and have tiles selected automatically (auto-tile) - none of which the frame editor has.
    This is a good example of a tile-based level editor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3NA7D8l2gY (note the lack of dragging tiles to move or copy them).
    Creating a level like that using the frame editor would be incredibly slow and tedious - if you needed more than a handful of maps for your game, it would certainly be much quicker and easier to create a good level editor and use that instead (plus it can be included with the game, to let players create their own maps).

    Note that the example above was specific to that one game - generic level editors may include some of the same features, but they can never be as good as an editor designed specifically for a particular game.
    eg. Tiled - http://www.mapeditor.org (suitable for both tile- and non-tile-based games)

    Other non-tile-based editors have other useful features...
    eg. Overlap2D - http://overlap2d.com / http://overlap2d.com/getting-started/

    Honestly, if you just type "level editor" into Youtube, I'm sure you'll see plenty of examples.


    Unfortunately, MMF2 / CF2.5 have a lot of very serious limitations that make it difficult to create a really good generic editor. For example, there is no cross-platform support for a file format like XML or JSON, and INIs and arrays are just far too basic. You can't create new objects from scratch at runtime - even loading a new animation into an active object has restrictions (you can only replace the existing animation frames, not add new ones). You can't retrieve the names of an object's alterable values. The list goes on...

  8. #8
    Clickteam Fusion 2.5 DeveloperAndroid Export ModuleHTML5 Export ModuleiOS Export ModuleUniversal Windows Platform Export ModuleInstall Creator Pro
    Fusion 2.5 (Steam)Fusion 2.5 Developer (Steam)Android Export Module (Steam)HTML5 Export Module (Steam)iOS Export Module (Steam)Universal Windows Platform Export Module (Steam)
    BartekB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    621
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm creating a tool for making levels for games made in Fusion, it will include:

    • Selection
    • Transformation ( Moving, rotating and scaling selected objects or grouped objects )
    • Copy & Pasting (Saving Copied objects for later use also possible)
    • Setting alterable values and strings ( Expressions available too )
    • Changing animations
    • Toggable grid
    • Zooming the editor in and out
    • Layers
    • and much, much more simple and advanced features.


    It will also be fully customisable by Plugins coded in Lua, so you will be able to create features you would like that aren't implemented yet.

    The tool will come with a widget which you insert into your apps to load levels.

    It is still in development but a lot has already been done, so I will later post an official thread for it when it is ready for testing and such.
    - BartekB, a.k.a Uppernate
    Join the Click Converse Discord! - https://discord.gg/7RNXFrC
    Dungeon Raiders! - Link soon™

  9. #9
    Clicker Fusion 2.5 (Steam)Fusion 2.5 Developer (Steam)Fusion 2.5+ DLC (Steam)Android Export Module (Steam)HTML5 Export Module (Steam)iOS Export Module (Steam)Universal Windows Platform Export Module (Steam)
    Volnaiskra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    www.sprykegame.com
    Posts
    2,081
    Mentioned
    71 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    @MuddyMole: The benefits of that first one are immediately obvious, if you've got a tiled game like that. That would definitely be worth the time to implement. I couldn't immediately see the benefit of Tiled and Overlap2D though, with the exception of Overlap2D's grouping and nesting features - that would be very useful. Obviously the lighting and particle stuff in Overlap 2D is very impressive, but I wouldn't even know if or how you could get that to work in Fusion.

    @BartekB: That sounds very promising!

  10. #10
    Clicker Fusion 2.5Android Export Module

    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    114
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    So what level editor would you guys suggest if I want to make a game like this?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGbAWgBIgHc

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Level editor that uses MMF2's own frame editor
    By Shawn in forum File Archive
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 9th November 2013, 06:34 PM
  2. Level editor?
    By EdibleWare in forum Multimedia Fusion 2 - Technical Support
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 12th March 2011, 09:22 PM
  3. Level editor?
    By Fishyboy in forum Multimedia Fusion 2 - Technical Support
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 15th January 2010, 06:21 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •