Time for Descaps?

[Novabrain]

Clickteam Descaps?

I don't know. We see the Yahoo Widgets and most of us know that, with some extra extension help, we could do them with MMF2.

I don't know about the effects like fading in and out and window transparency, but I am sure we could handle getting the CPU load, RAM stats, Wi-Fi signal and SSID, etc. If fact, maybe there could be dedicated descaps extensions, like one to get system data and another to allow for easy pulling of data from sites, (weather, rss, etc.)?

Creating a main app that is a wrapper for the system seems possible as I have played around with the idea a little. There are a lot of little details, but it is not too complicated and could grow over time. You would just create a subapp at runtime for each Descap and have some data stored about its position and settings. Each Descap would have to have a setting panel that could run simultaneous to its visible applet.

Descaps would be .ccn's renamed, (possibly with a built-in check before they run) to something like .fwt or .Fda, or something that is not yet taken. We only want them to run in the wrapper app.

If anybody who has used the Yahoo Widgets has any ideas about doing a system that would let MMF2 developers create Descaps, let me know. We need to do this a bit differently and we could have a Descap games section as a plus-side.

Maybe the main Descap hosting application could be offered by CT and who knows where it would go from there.

[LIJI]

Actually, I'm making a Desktop application currently codenamed Alfred Desktop which basically replaces the traditional Windows desktop with a highly customizable widget-ish desktop.

An extension that does CPU, RAM and other stuff like this would be helpful.

[gizmo]

A better ext would be one that queries WMI (windows management interface) which is how most of these systems work.

[JasonDarby]

What scope is there for vista ones? I know they are based on HTML, but it would be cool to plug into that in some way... or am i way off?

Jason

[gizmo]

What scope is there for vista ones? I know they are based on HTML, but it would be cool to plug into that in some way... or am i way off?

Jason

Windows sidebar ones are HTML & Javascript with custom API's. The sidebar can also host silverlght and WPF apps too.

[Novabrain]

The desk top wrapper and some guidelines would be a good start for this. While Yahoo has a good basic idea via Konfabulator, we need to work in our own sandbox and just make a universal runner for which users of MMF2 can create applications. Consistency is important and setup menus should be standardized for the apps.

I would stress that we want to make our runner as unique and different as is possible.

I want to note that the long-term is an issue for this, as well. If CT sponsors this idea, (which I have not cleared) then there is a potential that it could go to a larger arena via a major player. That all depends on how cool the created Descaps and Descgames are.

Just consider this a rough idea now. Proof of concept should go so far as to see if we wanted to take this any deeper, like the ability to build a "Descap" in MMF2, which is mostly going to be a file extension difference so far.

We also want to think about a sort of a package where the basic Descaps provide templates for most kinds of use and the proper way to make the applets work with the system.

As far as needed extensions go, I think the devs can cover that over time and CT can consider supporting it more.

Right now, we can do calendars, clocks, etc., and a host of others.

[gizmo]

You'll also be interested to know that ive been toying around with designs for such an app for a while now. Its a contained environment which would also support lua and a special services system where you could have "set it and forget it" systems such as an automatic sync tool or ftp uploader.

I might just take you up on this offer, now....lets see if that alpha blended window ext can be given a good developer

Edit, fuel to the flames;

http://www.coderbyday.com/caffeine.txt <- I found the preliminary lua interface.

[Novabrain]

Good to hear, Gizmo.

I have been playing with the actual widget/descap side of it and figuring out what we need/want and how to make this more of a template deal and supply all that is needed to creators.

When creating a digital clock Descap, I found that it is not too hard to do in a formula fashion. A lot of little things emerge if we want to do this right, as I bet you have seen also.

I will go into detail more about my findings later. For now, I think the idea is exciting and really practical with MMF2 and the current extensions, along with some new features that will start to stand out as we go along.

For instance, we have a Date & Time object, but we really need to be able to display clock-time using fonts like the counter object does while keeping the time positions. If you want the Decsap user to be able to set backgrounds from the Color Selector Object, then a utility to let them create the color boxes based on their backgrounds, (probably displayed as slots in the AO directions).

Also, that object won't let you switch between 12/24 display during runtime, and that means having two objects.

When you display a subapp setup box, a widget or extension to calculate where that box goes in relation to the Descap would be nice, e.g., if the widget is on the far right of the screen, the setup window should display to the left, etc. What I mean here by widget is like a Window Control with the calculations already set to adjust that automatically in its behaviors.

I think that, once we get done with this emerging product, not only will we be helping Clickteam, MMF2, and users, we may actually spark some nice extensions and improvements that will be useful for everyone across-the-board.

Thanks for your interest in the idea, and it is good to know you are already working on something.

Maybe when I have my digital clock descap in shape, I will upload it so you can see where I am with this. I would like to see more info about your ideas and solutions, as well.

There are a lot of details and I hope that everyone will get involved, discuss them, and make suggestions about what we have to do in order to make Descaps a powerful, easy to use, creation reality.

[gizmo]

I've learned a lot about developing extendible systems with MMF when I was making iPublish, there are some interesting problems that arise when people are given a playground or a constrained space in which to develop widgets.

The biggest challenge is providing a safe sandbox where the user has direct control over which widgets are allowed direct file system control and which aren't - using lua to abstract these commands is relatively easy. If you're hosting a MMF application it gets considerably more difficult short of removing all file system access.

It should also be noted that my vision might not be the same as yours, I will try to get my ideas down on paper asap so that they can be evaluated

[Novabrain]

Thanks. I look forward to hearing more.

Sounds like you have given it a lot of thought. That's good.