Competitor over exaggerates product compared to Clickteam Fusion 2.5 and others..

[Tuna]

he was just a troll - forget him.

Obviously the products from Click Team are well worth the money, and he doesn't have a clue because he's not a user. Having used CT products for a great many years, I can say there is no comparing the value vs other products out there. I've looked, and looked and looked, and one fact is true EVERY TIME - nothing beats the ease of use of Fusion products, nothing matches the overall capability granted by these products, and CT doesn't GOUGE its users wallets. let the trolls be trolls. it changes nothing.

[lastone]

Sinkers, now that is funny. That post was not a rant at the package. If you read it it says the package is not the problem. As I took some time explaining my point. This has nothing to do with what I know,experience and my personal whatever you think it means. It has to do with a pretty decent software package that is diminished by a lack of documentation and a forum that is more willie nillie than it shouldneed be.
I had no problem with this package. It is pretty easy to use. That coming from a heavily experienced programmer. But NOT with web based languages. It makes a difference what you know. For example.
Owidth. What I would/do imagine, for a lack of first hand experience, is a statement in web based languages that would compare to the if/then statement in basic in level of importance to the overall language. Owidth is a cornerstone of web based language i imagine because i do not know or have ever used web based software packages ie .net C or anything like them. A high level command word, owidth, agian i would imagine has a specific documentable value or meaning. If you are not a web based programmer like me you wouldn’t know what that meant/is. So you would try to get some help from the help contents for this package. You would think it would be there. It is used in large portion of games created by this package. A cornerstone of game concept for example the oheight owidth used to define part of a mini maps. So you go ahead and type that in and search for it in the help section of this package help files. No match. As well xframe yframe owidth etc just for examples. So how would you know how to use this or if it even exist. This is my point. Who would know what that means. A programmer. You really have to look at this and think what you knew in your first few months, or the first few days, programming in web based languages. I remember those first six months of my career very clearly. How I learned to program was the old fashion way. Someone gave me the manual and set me in front of a terminal. Sink or swim.
This is the point of my snicker rant as you guys are taking it. There is no complete manual. So you will definitely sink. Think about the first time you ever programmed anything anywhere. There is a learning curve yes. There is also a way to get answers. This is the problem I am trying to talk about here and trying to get jeff and you guys with experience to understand what I am saying and the value of it.
Overall, I will say again as i stated in the previous post, my last few weeks fooling around with this is very exciting and gives me great confidence in the integrity of the package at this point. It is as described very easy to use but with some weird idiosyncrasies as most stuff like this would have. nothing really unusual there. But the hole in the lack of documentation takes all that away. It degrades a pretty decent product. That is my point. And that is my only point here. It has nothing to do with the package. It has all to do with the documentation of the package. i hope we are straight on that now.

so why do i use this package instead of some higher level programming language. it is because this is better easier to use than those higher level languages. the learning curve is much lower and much less background is required. to sum it up it is in my, personal opinion, that these web based languages were created by moderate genius to make a simple problem difficult to solve. for a simple straight forward description of what i mean. what i am used to is typing an average seven characters to create one line of code. i have never and there is no room and no need to use more than thirty characters per line of code in what i use. if i look at say c code we would need to type an average twenty characters per line. the difference is, what i am using was created by a super genius to make a difficult thing very easy in every aspect to do. it was well planned, thought thru, and executed, and to this date is one of the worlds finest examples of what a programming language is suppose to be. in fact it is the backbone of every language since the 1950s. that should explain why i would use this package instead of the higher level stuff. a pretty smart guy took a difficult problem and turned it into something that was that much simpler and required less code to use in this package. again not and i am not trying to do some ripping on the package. i am ripping on the lack of documentation. if you still think that please reread this post and then reevaluate again.

this package was targeted to non programmers so what i am saying holds some validity as i described above. remember your first day as a programmer and then think of what i am saying here. it will sound less like a rant and more like a call to arms.

[zip2kx]

I get what you mean but lets get real, it's 2016.
People didnt read manuals back then and they dont do it now. The first reaction of most users is to google their problem. The manual is good enough to get you started and it has basic tutorials, much like e.g. Unity. You wont find a full fledged documentation for that either. If you genuinely wanted to find out what Owidth was you could have asked here and get a reply within minutes. Fusion has its problems, thats why the Fusion 3 thread is so long with suggestions etc, documentation shouldnt even be a priority. Anything you want is already documented in this forum or you know, the skynet site that has anything you ever want (google).

[DrWho]

@ lastone

jeff

if you guys did your job at any point in the last several years you wouldnt have to ask people to work for you and do your job for free.

Well lastone, from what I have seen from clickteam and thier products they HAVE BEEN DOING THIER JOB.. And doing thier job just fine from what I see..
And also, Jeff and the rest of the clickteam company did not ask any of us to work for them for free!! We the fellow users / supporters of clickteam and thier fine products
have chosen to do this on our own because we want to and love and support thier fine products they continuously bring to us all. And Jeff just mentioned about us making some money through the affiliate program so I hardly think given that statement that that could be justified as free?! Go back and re-read what Jeff said above so you will understand.. It's in plain english!!

where is a complete manual for this thing. it is a software product isnt it.

Have you tried " HELP / CONTENTS " in the Clickteam Fusion 2.5 main application? Click 'Help', Then Click 'CONTENTS'.. There is your product's manual sir!!

why do you not have tutorials for basic functions. the expression editor, simple things that are required for doing programming in this package.

How about Clickteams website link found here ---> http://www.clickteam.com/tutorials

And how about Danny's Video tutorials found here also ---> http://community.clickteam.com/content/277-NEW-Clickteam-Video-Starter-Pack

And how about going to 'YouTube' and simply typing in ' Clickteam Fusion 2.5 Tutorials ' to get this here ---> https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...+2.5+tutorials

Here is also ' Sparckman's ' excellent video tutorial series here also ---> https://www.udemy.com/nocode2dgames/

Here is also ' Danny's ' video tutorial series as well here ---> https://www.udemy.com/creating-games...ginner-course/

Plus if you goto www.google.com and simply type in ' Clickteam Fusion 2.5 tutorials' ' in the search field you will get About 46,400 results found!!

For someone that is so experienced as a mainframe programmer you shouldn't of had to written a letter basically complaining about how you can not find any help on clickteam's fusion 2.5 product when I just found all of these in a matter of only a few minutes of my time!! And also by the way too.. I'm a programmer as well with over 38 years of experience too! But still I had no problem finding the product's manual, video tutorials, and many, many exmaples to boot along with alot of help from Jeff and clickteam and the entire forum commujity with the many intelligent and very experienced clicker's / users/ supports here! Take the time and do your research and I'm sure you will find what your looking for sir! Good day!

@Jeff, You and the team are doing great!! Keep up the excellent work and also I'm signing up for the affiliate program soon and many thanks in advance!!

[piscesdreams]

Lastone, your sentence structure makes my brain hurt. If you want to be taken seriously, I suggest you present complete thoughts in a professional manner. Attacking Clickteam and complaining followed by an offer of services will not be well received; in fact it is downright childish.

If you have questions and need assistance getting your bearings in Fusion, I suggest posting your questions in the forum in a calm, inquisitive manner instead of with your hostile, accusational demeanor. Hostility gets you nowhere on this forum. And by the way...press F1 for the help file...

[chrilley]

For the record I'd also like to have a Snickers.

[SHINBAXTER]

For the record I'd also like to have a Snickers.

If we ever meet, i'll buy you one.

[arthurh]

he was just a troll - forget him.

Obviously the products from Click Team are well worth the money, and he doesn't have a clue because he's not a user. Having used CT products for a great many years, I can say there is no comparing the value vs other products out there. I've looked, and looked and looked, and one fact is true EVERY TIME - nothing beats the ease of use of Fusion products, nothing matches the overall capability granted by these products, and CT doesn't GOUGE its users wallets. let the trolls be trolls. it changes nothing.

Totally agree with you, Tuna !

[lastone]

so... stand in line for answers from the forum. could take minutes hours days not at all. i have seen the later several times so far not much but there. or spend a lot of time searching for an answer that should be in a manual. so five minutes vs. ?.... really. is this what i am paying for. to be hindered and then penalized every time i run into a wall and then maybe have to wait at the mercy of others for assistance. this is the point of my above post. everyone is still thinking that it is a rant, snickers moment, i like that one by the way giggle, or what ever thing other than what i made incredibly plain in so many ways is the problem. documentation of this product. yes google maybe i get the answer maybe not. why do i have even to do that. so we are back at the same point here. the one point i had originally posted. lack of documentation. at the cost of my personal time running around chasing my tail for something that should be in the manual for the package and should take a few seconds to look up and get the answer for. why is this happening and what can be done about it that is the question i have raised in these post. again this problem degrades a decent software package. a problem that can easily be fixed with some patience and a small amount of time. again that is the point of these post. if you think it is something other that that please reread them and you will see that it is the point. lack of documentation and the ease of solving the lack of documentation problem.
i will take a look at the links the doctor posted above to see what i find. i am looking for some stuff right now so i will see if it helps me out. i have confidence that i will find what i need in the user created tutorials. what i am looking for should not be in a manual for this package. so i will have to look at the tutorials to see if one fits the bill.

[mobichan]

I can totally agree with lastone's points about documentation. But I can't believe a man in his late 40's / early 50's doesn't have better manners or is better versed in proper grammar.

The documentation is pretty terrible and the forum search is nearly as bad. I really hope Fusion 3 is more complete in it's help section. I would say 90% of the time I want a simple answer I need to sort through unrelated thread posts from years ago that involve pages of exposition unrelated to the topic I am researching. I get better results from starting a new thread and letting the thread title suggestions show me what I am looking for. That is just plain dumb. No one should have to do that.

And anyone who tells me to use google has grown up never having used a proper manual or is just so used to google now that they have forgotten what a good manual can do for you.