"Simple" pseudo 3D space engine needed without extensions

Hi, So do you mean something like the first 2 Wing Commander engines? Like the video bellow? Go to about 1:00 for the action if the link doesn't take you there.

If so, I'd like to suggest a few things.
* Get the programer to make it so it will track 2D objects with a in the frame, and use an Alterable Value for the Z possition. So have 1 layer that is the "3D view" with a lower layer thas all the actual objects on it. Kind of like how the Mode7 object works. This will make programing other stuff much easier for you latter on. Because the back end coding would be like a 2D overhead shooter, rather than a 3D one.

* Get them to make it so the engine will recognize what angle the object is in relation to the viewer. Again, this is to make it easier for you. So you can just fill in the regular animation directions as the directions of the objects and the engine will display the appropriate one. In this instance you may also want to use a few different animations for Upper, middle and lower. But the idea is the same.

* Get them to do the scrolling star background, it can also be a pain to get that right even if you do know the math.

Just some suggestions, I would actually be really interested in buying an engine like this. If it was reasonably priced. So, yea, I can't make the engine for you but I'd be willing to share the cost of it's production if it's in my price range. In fact, I'd bet there would be other people willing to buy it as well.

Please login to see this media element.

Well, a frame can be any size and you can make a function that will read a map file and recreate it in the frame. Also, about the "tunnel" thing, that's why you have the Z veriable within each object. So you can keep track of the "height". I realize that in real space there is no up and down but in a game you can cheat a little and most people won't notice.

So you're not planning on making a shooter? I'd be interested to know what kind of game you are making then. An adventure game, a sim maybe? If you need to go more realistic maybe you should get them to build you a workable map editor as well. Again, just a suggestion.

Anyway, I hope you find someone.

very interesting project, I recently learned of ways to do this kind of game with MMF. Just out of curiosity, you do not want any collision at all? not even weapon beams (raytraces, linechecks)

Further do you require the render distance from player position to be in a spherical shape? It's very likely that some distance optimization of any kind is required for the game to run well on old iOS devices like 3gs.

About your world (the universe), can you define the randomized events a little?
Please login to see this picture.
"doodles"

Quote from MJK

However, if there will be more people interested in this project and also co-funding the development, then it might make sense to add collision detection and weapons. But right now - no need for either. In this way it is a "simple" flying around engine.

Just so you know, I wasn't kidding about helping you fund this. I've actually been thinking of starting up a thread like this for a while now. Obviously it would depend on how much it would cost but I am keen to get a good engine like this made. I would be looking for something that has enough basic features that people can easily edit and build a game directly on top of it. Kind of like the one that came with the Raycasting extension, it has all the bare basic features you need for a shooter, movement, bullet tracing, sprite-to-active mapping. But you could edit or disable any group as you needed.

I'm not saying you need to go into too much minutia here, Just make some systems that people can then use as a template to make there own.

Also, making it a more general purpose engine will help it to appeal to other devs who may want to buy the engine. Like that guy who is selling MMF2 effects on that website (link bellow).
Please login to see this link.

Quote from MJK

Equally important here is the cross-platform requirement meaning that this engine should work in exe, flash, iOS and Android runtimes (+HTML5?), so preferably I'm looking for something that uses just scale, angle and quite a bit of trigonometry math in MMF2 to pull it off (as opposite to e.g. the Raycasting extension which is limited to one runtime only).

Yea, definitely. The more run times it works in the better. If it only uses scale, angle and and math then it really aught to work in any run time. I believe there are some universal extensions, like the Layer Object and Array Object, that are maintained by Click Team and work with everything. Or at least all the exporters I have.

So, I think we should make a thread about it on the main forum (MMF2 support forum). To see how many other people are interested.

The question I really have is how do you want to model this? You're talking about an "infinite" scene so it's hard to see how you want to define such a scene with MMF. If there's a lot of objects you would also need some kind of scene graph to help filter the objects quickly.

Sounds challenging and motivating. No extensions, no shaders? I'm considering it and I have even few ideas already.

SEELE has made some quite nice 3D examples in the past. One of them was without extensions or anything like that, and it was a star field of sorts, if I remember correctly. I don't have it on this computer, but I remember that it exists, and that it proves that it is possible using only active objects. I could also probably make such an example, though I won't be able to do that right at this moment.

happygreenfrog: I have seen demos like this too. There was a really old school star fox type one that was made with Games Factory 1. However they were poorly commented, used a lot of hard numbers and generally if you didn't already know the math behind it they were pretty much useless to you. Or at least to me anyway. Perhaps one of these examples could be used as a base but it would still need to be converted into a state where other people could use it.

The math is kinda simple, actually:

X = <insert screen width/2>+((3D X-CameraX)/(Z-CameraZ))
Y = <insert screen height/2>+((3D Y-CameraY)/(Z-CameraZ))
Scale = Z-CameraZ

The reason you divide the X and Y by the Z is because that will make the object move closer and closer to the center of the screen as they get further and further from the camera (it's also why you add the screen width and height divided by 2 to the X and Y). The Z is the distance from the screen, BTW. The 3D X and 3D Y should be stored as alterable values, BTW, and the same goes with the Z. This is the basic idea, anyway. It's actually also something along the lines of what you would do to use the surface object's polygon drawing feature to make colored (but not textured) 3D polygons. If it doesn't work, then let me know, and I'll try to see where I went wrong with the math (I learned the math from SEELE's article on 3D in MMF2, though I might not be remembering it perfectly).

@happygreenfrom: I have absolutely no idea what to do with that. I mean, I think I know what it's for but I'm not sure how I could use it.

This is an example that has it in action. It should give you the basic idea of what this is capable of: Please login to see this link.

Note that I have a better understanding of it now than I did before (I think), so I probably could make a better example now, but it still should give you the general idea.

I don't understand Sin and Cosine enough to make a rotating 3D camera, unfortunately (at least, I don't think I do). I also don't have MMF2 on this computer, so I can't do it right now anyway (however, an endless star field shouldn't be too hard to do, as soon as I have MMF2 on here (I'll need an external CD drive for that)).

Quote from MJK

That's a neat example, happygreenfrog.

Now if we could get this smiley face to float in space and travel to any possible direction instead just on the flat ground...

Well, I'd also want some kind of map editor. I did manage to add another square to appear on the field but I had to create a hole new object, not just an instance and if I had to keep an entire level on graph paper or something it would probably get pretty unwieldy pretty quickly. Also, we'd need some way of automating angles too. I think using the internal MMF animation angles should be enough.